Electrical Upgrade Question

[jgruberman 10+ year member]

Your making this way harder then it needs to be...okay money is an issue and you can add more later. So I would say
1. Do the Big three in 0 guage, I say 0 because if you wanna add to your system later all your wire will have the same current flow.

2. Replace the starter battery with the biggest you can put in there.

3. Add a rear battery, same size or bigger.

It works and will work fine as long as you connect everything properly. Number 4. would be to replace your alternator. But of course you can do it in any order you want because 2, 3, and 4 might get done in different orders just because everyone see's the power stuff a little different this is the way I would do it.

This is the exact same thing that I thought. This same order, everything. This validates what I thought.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

And this second battery will be charged by the alternator as well? Wouldn't that put more strain on the alternator trying to charge two batteries?
Edit: Just found this on Crutchfield Crutchfield Tech Support: How would adding a second battery to my vehicle help my system?

Seems that they think it only helps for stereos in cars not running as well.

Crutchfield also pushes capacitors and that link suggests dual output alts...last dual output alt I heard of was back in 1994 as I still own one from 1991.

What is more stressfull though a drop to 11v or one 12v?

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

I basically Posted a complealty same topic more or less thread and some of the replies here on this one answered my question..

I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed but it seams to me on this topic is the following..

So basically from everything I have read and heard, a second battery will help but for only a short time.. it will add extra power to the system, but once you drain that extra power.. that battery, is pulling from the front.. and only covers up the obvious.. if the alt cant produce enough power to power the car and the audio system, then it does not matter how many extra bats your put in the car.. unless you upgrade the alt..

That seams to be the absolute...

As far as the cal on Kin's website, this is cool and gerat information guys, but something I notice, is it still does not really clear up the obvious.. your still going to have the same problem.. so anyone thats lacking power, simply adding a second battery will not help with out having an alt that can produce the power needed..

Something else to remember is they are tring to sell something to you.. put in 600w or 1w and it will still tell you you need a second battery, which is false.. if your only pulling 600w rms and having issues then you are having problems with your electrical system...

So in conclusion my POV is simply this.. for those that are only need short peek power meaning your listening to your music at a moderate level and only really cranking it up to full potential on those songs you just have to crank up.. then it might* do what you need it to do.. provide you the power in for a short time.. and have a chance to recharge it self once you decrese the volume back down..

But for those like me.. that pretty much listen at any given time to full potential full time.. pulling full RMS power.. once i drain the power and my alt cant keep up with the two bats, then I and someone like me are in the same boat..

See my problem is for my particular POS an upgraded alt can't be found.. and the only one I did find would have to be custom built as a one-off.. costing way too much than its actually worth..

But like I said.. from the information given, this is simply my POV and my understanding.. but i think its pretty safe to say it sounds" correct.. but I'm probably wrong because I have no clue in this area of things..

there is an auto electric shop here in town, I'm going to pay them a visit and see what they think.. screw the audio shops they are just wanting you to spend money..

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

I have a reasonable question..

Lets say I am completely wrong in my POV..

I was reading one of the posts here saying to run a Ground 1/0 and Power from the front bat to rear.. and was supposedly better than just grounding to the chasis..

Ok.. so my question.. if you need an isolator for the positive, do you need the same for the ground? or does that not matter being its a ground..

 

[blackdrag450r 10+ year member]

i was under the impression that if you make 2 runs from front battery to rear battery that you don't use a isolator, it turns it into 1 big battery...

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I basically Posted a complealty same topic more or less thread and some of the replies here on this one answered my question..
I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed but it seams to me on this topic is the following..

So basically from everything I have read and heard, a second battery will help but for only a short time.. it will add extra power to the system, but once you drain that extra power.. that battery, is pulling from the front.. and only covers up the obvious.. if the alt cant produce enough power to power the car and the audio system, then it does not matter how many extra bats your put in the car.. unless you upgrade the alt..

That seams to be the absolute...

As far as the cal on Kin's website, this is cool and gerat information guys, but something I notice, is it still does not really clear up the obvious.. your still going to have the same problem.. so anyone thats lacking power, simply adding a second battery will not help with out having an alt that can produce the power needed..

Something else to remember is they are tring to sell something to you.. put in 600w or 1w and it will still tell you you need a second battery, which is false.. if your only pulling 600w rms and having issues then you are having problems with your electrical system...

So in conclusion my POV is simply this.. for those that are only need short peek power meaning your listening to your music at a moderate level and only really cranking it up to full potential on those songs you just have to crank up.. then it might* do what you need it to do.. provide you the power in for a short time.. and have a chance to recharge it self once you decrese the volume back down..

But for those like me.. that pretty much listen at any given time to full potential full time.. pulling full RMS power.. once i drain the power and my alt cant keep up with the two bats, then I and someone like me are in the same boat..

See my problem is for my particular POS an upgraded alt can't be found.. and the only one I did find would have to be custom built as a one-off.. costing way too much than its actually worth..

But like I said.. from the information given, this is simply my POV and my understanding.. but i think its pretty safe to say it sounds" correct.. but I'm probably wrong because I have no clue in this area of things..

there is an auto electric shop here in town, I'm going to pay them a visit and see what they think.. screw the audio shops they are just wanting you to spend money..

If you have lets say a max draw of 160 amps for your audio system it is not always going to draw 160 amps to music. Sometimes it could only be drawing 35 amps. During the time the draw of the audio system is under the output of the alternator it will recharge the batteries. You can over load an alt by letting your battery or batteries get drained too far as the low resting battery will draw more power than a charged battery will by far.

If you have an audio system in your car I always suggest a battery charger no matter if you have a high output alt or not. Why? Because alts bulk charge batteries they don't "top them off". Charge back up a battery to 80 to 90% and dont top it off sooner or later that 80-90% becames the batteries new 100% due to sulfation. Regular flooded cells or agm and the two different types of batteries need different chargers or modes to charge them correctly.

AGM type batteries recharge faster than the flooded wet cell type and when they are close to being fully charged draw less than their wet flooded cell counter parts. Getting a larger/higher output alt is a great thing to do but in larger systems doing both upgrades is suggested. Think of the alternator as a motor on an air compressor and the battery as the compressor tank. You can have a totally bad assed compressor motor but if the tank is too small or has holes you are limited anyway.

 

[LiveAudio911 10+ year member]

i was under the impression that if you make 2 runs from front battery to rear battery that you don't use a isolator, it turns it into 1 big battery...

yes I read that... but I guess my question should be what about bats that are not the same, and your run a 1/0 ground back there.. as some suggested, should it be connected using the isolator

If you have lets say a max draw of 160 amps for your audio system it is not always going to draw 160 amps to music. Sometimes it could only be drawing 35 amps. During the time the draw of the audio system is under the output of the alternator it will recharge the batteries. You can over load an alt by letting your battery or batteries get drained too far as the low resting battery will draw more power than a charged battery will by far.
If you have an audio system in your car I always suggest a battery charger no matter if you have a high output alt or not. Why? Because alts bulk charge batteries they don't "top them off". Charge back up a battery to 80 to 90% and dont top it off sooner or later that 80-90% becames the batteries new 100% due to sulfation. Regular flooded cells or agm and the two different types of batteries need different chargers or modes to charge them correctly.

AGM type batteries recharge faster than the flooded wet cell type and when they are close to being fully charged draw less than their wet flooded cell counter parts. Getting a larger/higher output alt is a great thing to do but in larger systems doing both upgrades is suggested. Think of the alternator as a motor on an air compressor and the battery as the compressor tank. You can have a totally bad assed compressor motor but if the tank is too small or has holes you are limited anyway.

Thank you for the intelligent response.. I figured i'd get flamed, as I see alot of that around the forums.. I guess my biggest thing is there are so many opinions out there of whats better and visa versa, I know I'm just going to have to figure out what works best for me and my install but I would like to just try and get the best possible advise from ppl that are not tring to sell me crap you know..

My problem is tring to select the right battery, for my particular car, there is only 1 red top listed that fits.. so I'm to the point now just to pick one thats not too tall and make it work.. so I'm just tring to figure out at a reasonable cost, what bat would work best for my application.. I have rough measurements of the size of batt i can put up front (If i modify a little) which I am willing to do.. if need be.. I understand about Kin's and stinger's showing you what bats to get inreferance to your watts.. so Im just gonna have to pick one

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

yes I read that... but I guess my question should be what about bats that are not the same, and your run a 1/0 ground back there.. as some suggested, should it be connected using the isolator
Thank you for the intelligent response.. I figured i'd get flamed, as I see alot of that around the forums.. I guess my biggest thing is there are so many opinions out there of whats better and visa versa, I know I'm just going to have to figure out what works best for me and my install but I would like to just try and get the best possible advise from ppl that are not tring to sell me crap you know..

My problem is tring to select the right battery, for my particular car, there is only 1 red top listed that fits.. so I'm to the point now just to pick one thats not too tall and make it work.. so I'm just tring to figure out at a reasonable cost, what bat would work best for my application.. I have rough measurements of the size of batt i can put up front (If i modify a little) which I am willing to do.. if need be.. I understand about Kin's and stinger's showing you what bats to get inreferance to your watts.. so Im just gonna have to pick one

Isolators have their place there are several different types. No matter what though current is going to go to the item wanting the most power.

Relays and such allow the 2 batteries to work together when connected but when they are activated they can cause a spark that can eventually damage the relay or the batteries themselves where as an actual isolator is used it has a voltage drop and the front battery will not help for the system. Sure it allows you to start the car in key off listening but if the back battery dies it may damage the alt and I have even seen it where the front battery is actually running the car while the engine is running because the pull of the audio system iis draging down the alt. (not that common I doubt but I have seen it). If you have a daily driver that you actually drive alot a parallel system is fine and if you know you are not going to be driving it for sometime (days or week) at least take out a fuse between the batteries if not just totally disconnect the batteries. Another thing people over look is they store a car they leave everything hooked up to the battery and leave a battery tender on it. Actually the best way to care for a battery in storage is to dissconnect it from the car and to then put a tender/maintaining charger on it. Just because the car is off does not mean it may not have a parasitic load.

If the wattage rating of the battery exceeds the output of the alternator and the battery does not have a large capacity I would take the rating with a grain of salt. If the battery discharges so much and has a low capacity it will become dead faster and need recharged more often especially if the system has a smaller alternator than required.