ED's production basket pics are posted..(av2)

[Mr Cabinetry 10+ year member]

Phil,
The primary difference is that in the case of Adire, RE Audio, and Fi they used open and non-proprietary tooling and parts. In the case of eD and JL Audio, some of the parts in question (the basket) are very similar in both form and function involving a patented design (not "so called" patented). There is nothing wrong with copying another company in some respects...it's the most sincere form of flattery. But when you copy or near-copy a patented part or product, you are taking considerable risks.

Again, I say if eD had nothing to worry about, they would not have changed the basket. Mind you, they may still have something to worry about as they sent out the prototype with the potentially infringing basket out to customers for early reviews...not a smart move on their part.

DD,

Understandably, I get the crux of the " sticking points " and yes, if ED sent out the proto before making sure there design in some way, shape or form infringed on another design by another company, then there should be he!! to pay.

However, if you consider the fact that many, many other products ( i'm talking outside car audio ) though similar in appearance and design upon closer inspections are not so similar due to subtle design changes, therefore not being similar at all.

As said previously, I have no proclivity towards any company, but, this kinda thing is always happening on a regular basis with one company taking issue with another because of similarity's of product with the usual outcome of the company with the bigger wallet always " bullying " the smaller company to conform to their will.

If there is case purely from the perspective of " Patent Infringement " then so be it, but, just because two products both look similar yet dis-similar which you can tell just by looking at the subs, there's no comparison and if JL contention is that people would confuse the W7 with ED's subwoofer at a glance, I'd have to say the person is blind.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

DD,
Understandably, I get the crux of the " sticking points " and yes, if ED sent out the proto before making sure there design in some way, shape or form infringed on another design by another company, then there should be he!! to pay.

However, if you consider the fact that many, many other products ( i'm talking outside car audio ) though similar in appearance and design upon closer inspections are not so similar due to subtle design changes, therefore not being similar at all.

As said previously, I have no proclivity towards any company, but, this kinda thing is always happening on a regular basis with one company taking issue with another because of similarity's of product with the usual outcome of the company with the bigger wallet always " bullying " the smaller company to conform to their will.

If there is case purely from the perspective of " Patent Infringement " then so be it, but, just because two products both look similar yet dis-similar which you can tell just by looking at the subs, there's no comparison and if JL contention is that people would confuse the W7 with ED's subwoofer at a glance, I'd have to say the person is blind.

My friend's Toyota looks alot like a Mercedes. So much so that its obvious they took many styling cues from the Mercs. Do you think Toyota was expecting people to confuse Toyota's and Mercedes? No, that wouldn't be the point. They would do such a thing to try and make a connection between the two... one a known and popular brand/style/design... the other a new model coming out. Situation sound familiar? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Its not about mistaking one for the other, its about trying to draw a link between a wildly successful product from another company, and Ben's new product just hitting the market. If you cant understand why a company would attempt to steal aesthetic cues from a successful design already on the market, Im not sure how else to explain it to you. Its a pretty common sense thing... something is successful, you want your product to be associated with it somehow. This is how 'me too' companies like eD operate.
I highly doubt eD ever copied the W7 frame with the intention of people buying it accidently, thinking it were a JL Audio piece. But clearly there was copying going on from an aesthetics standpoint. If you want to disagree, thats your perogative... but imo its obvious that eD copied the W7/W6 frame aesthetically. Are they exact? No. But they are close enough that you'd never convince me Ben/eD came up with the design completely on their own, without copying the JL part. Many companies today have their own proprietary high-excursion frame... yet nobody else's needed to so closesly resemble JL's in order to gain the performance they needed. Only eD aparently needed a frame that so closely resembles one already being produced.

"As said previously, I have no proclivity towards any company, but, this kinda thing is always happening on a regular basis with one company taking issue with another because of similarity's of product with the usual outcome of the company with the bigger wallet always " bullying " the smaller company to conform to their will."

This is the sort of comment I find hard to understand coming from someone who says they are not biased (and I generally know you to be a fair person). This comment, your comment, attempts to validate industrial espionage... and seems to imply JL will/did win this battle merely because they are a bigger, bullying type of company. Are you joking? eD STOLE 2 of their patents, in doing so was too stupid to at least make the frame look different than the design they STOLE it from... and you make excuses for them like 'well companies copy stuff all the time' and 'they're just the little guy getting picked on by the big guy'. Come on, that's not fair to JL, and its making unjustified excuses for eD.

I find not one valid reason for your position on this issue. eD stole patented material, eD got caught, eD changed their design. There is no room in there for JL Audio bullied them with their big wallets, or that the design/likeness was solely aesthetic, etc.

If you want to believe the frames look nothing alike, that's your perogative. Many many others disagree with you on that point, even to the extent someone made an entire webpage based around the comparison, and to the extent that even JL Audio themselves looked into the situation. *shrug* That's really not the point though, the point is eD tried to steal something that wasn't theirs, and they got caught. No, not every company operates this way, only the crooked ones.

 

[Mr Cabinetry 10+ year member]

My friend's Toyota looks alot like a Mercedes. So much so that its obvious they took many styling cues from the Mercs. Do you think Toyota was expecting people to confuse Toyota's and Mercedes? No, that wouldn't be the point. They would do such a thing to try and make a connection between the two... one a known and popular brand/style/design... the other a new model coming out. Situation sound familiar? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Its not about mistaking one for the other, its about trying to draw a link between a wildly successful product from another company, and Ben's new product just hitting the market. If you cant understand why a company would attempt to steal aesthetic cues from a successful design already on the market, Im not sure how else to explain it to you. Its a pretty common sense thing... something is successful, you want your product to be associated with it somehow. This is how 'me too' companies like eD operate.
I highly doubt eD ever copied the W7 frame with the intention of people buying it accidently, thinking it were a JL Audio piece. But clearly there was copying going on from an aesthetics standpoint. If you want to disagree, thats your perogative... but imo its obvious that eD copied the W7/W6 frame aesthetically. Are they exact? No. But they are close enough that you'd never convince me Ben/eD came up with the design completely on their own, without copying the JL part. Many companies today have their own proprietary high-excursion frame... yet nobody else's needed to so closesly resemble JL's in order to gain the performance they needed. Only eD aparently needed a frame that so closely resembles one already being produced.

"As said previously, I have no proclivity towards any company, but, this kinda thing is always happening on a regular basis with one company taking issue with another because of similarity's of product with the usual outcome of the company with the bigger wallet always " bullying " the smaller company to conform to their will."

This is the sort of comment I find hard to understand coming from someone who says they are not biased (and I generally know you to be a fair person). This comment, your comment, attempts to validate industrial espionage... and seems to imply JL will/did win this battle merely because they are a bigger, bullying type of company. Are you joking? eD STOLE 2 of their patents, in doing so was too stupid to at least make the frame look different than the design they STOLE it from... and you make excuses for them like 'well companies copy stuff all the time' and 'they're just the little guy getting picked on by the big guy'. Come on, that's not fair to JL, and its making unjustified excuses for eD.

I find not one valid reason for your position on this issue. eD stole patented material, eD got caught, eD changed their design. There is no room in there for JL Audio bullied them with their big wallets, or that the design/likeness was solely aesthetic, etc.

If you want to believe the frames look nothing alike, that's your perogative. Many many others disagree with you on that point, even to the extent someone made an entire webpage based around the comparison, and to the extent that even JL Audio themselves looked into the situation. *shrug* That's really not the point though, the point is eD tried to steal something that wasn't theirs, and they got caught. No, not every company operates this way, only the crooked ones.

audioholic,

I was making a comment as to my point of view of the entire e situation.

And then you make the make me to look like I " endorse " ED's practices.

I don't give a sh!t what ED does or who has a beef with their business practices, I make a comment this some how associates me with what what ED did as justified.

I don't condone a company or individual trying to copy or rip off another company's product or the sake of their own profit margin.

I'll tell ya what though, I get alot of requests from folks asking if I can build and enclosure exactly or similar to another enclosure that a company has already done and I tell that individual I will not do it because of " copyright infringement ".

I got copyrighted designs from company's that customers purchased the plans from that I built the enclosure's and folks asking if i would build them the enclosure even though they never purchased the plans.

I will not nor ever will do such a thing because I don't care if I got a penny to my name, I will not do so just to make a buck. I got to much self respect for myself to let greed be as factor in how I conduct my business and those folks, though they would never admit it call me this and that.

Now, if my opinion on the subject matter is presumed other than what I am saying, than that is your presumption and though I am offended, only mildly, I can respect your opinion in spite of no respect for my opinion with the exception to DevilDriver.

And with that, I got nothing to say further on the matter.

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

audioholic,
I was making a comment as to my point of view of the entire e situation.

And then you make the make me to look like I " endorse " ED's practices.

I don't give a sh!t what ED does or who has a beef with their business practices, I make a comment this some how associates me with what what ED did as justified.

I don't condone a company or individual trying to copy or rip off another company's product or the sake of their own profit margin.

I'll tell ya what though, I get alot of requests from folks asking if I can build and enclosure exactly or similar to another enclosure that a company has already done and I tell that individual I will not do it because of " copyright infringement ".

I got copyrighted designs from company's that customers purchased the plans from that I built the enclosure's and folks asking if i would build them the enclosure even though they never purchased the plans.

I will not nor ever will do such a thing because I don't care if I got a penny to my name, I will not do so just to make a buck. I got to much self respect for myself to let greed be as factor in how I conduct my business and those folks, though they would never admit it call me this and that.

Now, if my opinion on the subject matter is presumed other than what I am saying, than that is your presumption and though I am offended, only mildly, I can respect your opinion in spite of no respect for my opinion with the exception to DevilDriver.

And with that, I got nothing to say further on the matter.

I see no reason for you to be offended. You stated your opinion, I stated mine.

This is the sort of comment I find hard to understand coming from someone who says they are not biased (and I generally know you to be a fair person).

Notice I mentioned considering you normally a fair person. This is exactly why I found your reply so confusing, you DID seem to be condoning copying technology, and that the big guy always wins because he has deeper pockets. Now you seem to be doing a 180. If you weren't implying JL 'won' due to solely having deeper pocket, I do not understand why you made such a comment. If you hate copywrite infringement so much, I do not understand why you much such comments on it happening every day and seemingly downplay the issue. If your comments meant something else entirely, well forgive me for interpreting them that way. But frankly, given the situation, I see no other interpretation that makes much sense.

If I had no respect for your opinion, I wouldn't have taken the time to write the lengthy reply I did. Sorry you feel the way you do, that is your choice.

 

[t-money 10+ year member]

Audioholic may i ask how old you are?

 

[azbass 5,000+ posts]

looks to be in his 30's

 

[t-money 10+ year member]

looks to be in his 30's

i don't believe that, i feel bad for this guy. The amount of energy and time he puts into hating ED surprises me. I think he belives he can change the world or something. Like most i really don't care if ED succeeds or not but to hate them with the passion he does is sad. And to say they're playing catch up when the e15a had a xmax of 29.1 mm, which is even more than my Mag(which i would take over the e15a in a heart beat). I just can't believe he in his 30's. Most men in their 30's have some sort of life and they don't usually have the time or energy to hate on a company with as much passion as him.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[dB Dom 10+ year member]

I love how the motors looks on the audiojunkies website. The first pic of the proto with the motor looking like a w7, then the newer version with a completely different motor config.

 

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

everyone reading this is aware that this is the new W7, right?

its actually a little better.

 

[david in german 10+ year member]

i don't believe that, i feel bad for this guy. The amount of energy and time he puts into hating ED surprises me. I think he belives he can change the world or something. Like most i really don't care if ED succeeds or not but to hate them with the passion he does is sad. And to say they're playing catch up when the e15a had a xmax of 29.1 mm, which is even more than my Mag(which i would take over the e15a in a heart beat). I just can't believe he in his 30's. Most men in their 30's have some sort of life and they don't usually have the time or energy to hate on a company with as much passion as him.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

QFT!

I am waiting for when he says that the 29.1 xmax is a lie too..

Someone must have dropped an old 12o. on his puppy or something..

 

[azbass 5,000+ posts]

i don't believe that, i feel bad for this guy. The amount of energy and time he puts into hating ED surprises me. I think he belives he can change the world or something. Like most i really don't care if ED succeeds or not but to hate them with the passion he does is sad. And to say they're playing catch up when the e15a had a xmax of 29.1 mm, which is even more than my Mag(which i would take over the e15a in a heart beat). I just can't believe he in his 30's. Most men in their 30's have some sort of life and they don't usually have the time or energy to hate on a company with as much passion as him.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

hey he makes very solid and correct statements, and is very knowledgeable.

but ill let him finish you off.

 

[david in german 10+ year member]

BTW am I the only one that thinks the W7's are ugly?

 

[22mountaineer 10+ year member]

Sense when did people start looking at subs and saying "I want that sub because of the basket"

So why in the hell would ED want to make there basket look like JL's to trick anyone? Nonsense.

JL is just crying because there "BADASS W7" is not the shit that they thought it would be and they want to bring some hype up about it to get it even more -out there-

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

BTW am I the only one that thinks the W7's are ugly?

I thought the samething about most German women.