Does Peal & seal work

It's cheap, but it doesn't do the same thing at all. It adds mass, that's all. Asphalt is not a viscoelastic material - butyl is. Google "viscoelastic constrained layer damper" for background on how important that feature is.
Asphalt is prone to failure and its potential to fail increases every day. Heat tolerance decreases with time. Its durability varies between batches and due to circumstances completely beyond the user's control. Cleaning the surfaces won't stabilize it and using a heat gun to increase short term adhesive strength ACCELERATES the reduction in its heat tolerance.

Whether or not you can smell it, if the asphalt is flexible, it is outgassing toxic VOCs. There are no two ways about it.

There is no possible way this can be an accurate statement. It will be better than nothing if it doesn't melt or otherwise fall off. That is the best that can be said for it.

see above

As I said before, it will be better than nothing if it doesn't fail and you don't mind the toxicity. The reason people make assertions like this is because they don't have enough experience with a range of products. Ask yourself why you so seldom hear any one say they used to use butyl and tried asphalt and it works just as well? Much more likely to hear the opposite. People with a lot of experience don't say things like this.

An interesting phenomenon has developed over the past few years that I have been reviewing sound deadeners. Early on, many people contacted me to insist that asphalt was as good as butyl. Many of them have been honest enough to contact me later to say that despite meticulous installation, the asphalt mat eventually melted or fell off. Don't consider anybody reliable on this point unless they have had an asphalt product in their car for at least 3 summers. I'm not saying there is a 100% failure rate - just that there are far too many cases of perfect installation and product failure for me to even consider it. Not on a vertical surface and not on a horizontal surface. Peel & Seal was meant to make temporary repairs on the roof of a mobile home. Use it for that.

The aluminum foil backed Protecto-Wrap isn't bad at all, if it has the butyl adhesive. Protecto-Wrap isn't a product, it is a company. They make asphalt and butyl with aluminum foil or plastic facings. You want butyl and aluminum foil. Anything else is a waste of time. The foil is an important component that contributes substantially to the product's effectiveness.

WRONG - WRONG - WRONG. THis stuff claims to be butyl but is asphalt. It also has a silvery looking facing that is actually plastic. It is the worst of all possible product configurations AND is being sold through deception.

Also consider the thickness and mass/ft². Flashing tapes like Protecto Wrap are usually a lot thinner than products like RAAMmat that are sold by reputable companies for sound deadening. If it takes 2 layers of Protecto-Wrap to equal 1 layer of RAAMmat, the economy is much worse.

No question, RAAMmat

No. Please see above for reasons why this is not a good idea and why the two can never be equivalent.

You would have to use MANY to accomplish with mass loading alone what a butyl product accomplishes with mass loading and constrained layer viscoelastic damping.

When I first started looking at sound deadeners, it was strictly to find something for my own use. Like many of you, I was intrigued by the idea of something that could be purchased cheaply at Home Depot being as good as the very expensive products being sold as sound deadeners. Several years and literally dozens of products later, there is no doubt in my mind that asphalt is far too risky and ineffective to be worth the trouble.

Even the cheapness argument is doubtful. In my experience, using $50 of a decent butyl mat and spreading it out will work better than $50 of Peel & Seal or other asphalt with none of the downside risks.
Funny..

These are the same things I have been saying for years.

Do a search about 2 years back and you will see how some members on this very forum flamed me and just about ran me out of here, accusing me of spamming the boards with anti-asphalt rhetoric in an attempt to bring business my way..

At some point I just gave up trying to explain this to people and let them figure it out for themselves.

Glad opinions have changed, whether I had anything to do with it or not.

ANT

http://www.secondskinaudio.com

 
I would honestly say dont use peel n seal. Use something that is much better like second skin, dynamat.. ramaat... etc. With all of the time put into putting the shit in your car... its just not worth it. I probably spent about 5 hours or so in my last car using peel n seal and it didnt do really anything. WIth the setup that I just finished(20-25 hours into the full install) Dynamat is CRAZY good. I couldnt believe the incredible bass response coming from the doors. out of the 20-25 hours for the install probably 10-15 of them was just the dynamat all over the car. Both doors and the trunk.(and my cheap civic still rattles some places.)

 
One thing to remember is that removing failed peal n seal is a MAJOR *****! It leaves a black tar residue behind that must be cleaned off with chemicals that will make your car stink for weeks.

Some of it sticks very well, actually. Some of it doesn't stick at all. What you're left with here is cutting the parts that didn't stick out with a knife. So you end up with this ugly patch of peal n seal looking cancer.

So now what? The areas that didn't stick are cut out and the areas that did won't budge. Do you apply butyl-based CLD over those areas and HOPE that the other areas don't fail? What if they do? Doesn't that negate the use of the better mat...rendering it ineffective in the long run? Now you've wasted your money on both and the time and effort trying to solve the problem.

I'm not here to tell anyone what to use. If you use peal n seal, use it as it's designed to.

Carry on.....

 
So what are they making edead out of nowdays? I think I heard that they moved away from asphalt, but who knows.
Not sure, rather not get into it. But as soon as i stuck it on, and pressed it, ***** was on there solid. Still need to do the hatch, that will have a mixture of fatmat rattle stop and se2.

 
So what are they making edead out of nowdays? I think I heard that they moved away from asphalt, but who knows.
I know the ewer stuff is butyl, I dont remember how their naming system forit works, but Ive tried a couple of the vs1e3x589 whatever versions, and they both worked.. but the ones I bought were thinner than I expected..

Ive used peal and seal as well as dynamat and edead stuff, good luck so far, hopefully I dont have problems later on from the peal and seal..

if I were to do it again, I wouldnt use peal and seal, or any asphaul deadeners.. messy, harder to work with, nasty to cut it, etc etc

even with the savings, Id still want to use the butyl based stuff.. its just sooo much easier to work with

 
So what are they making edead out of nowdays? I think I heard that they moved away from asphalt, but who knows.
The ² versions use a butyl adhesive but they use Mylar instead of aluminum foil. Aluminum foil is a constraining layer and dramatically enhances the effectiveness of the product. Mylar just holds the goo in and adds nothing to the sound deadening capabiliteis of the mat - a very serious functional compromise.

Just to maintain a perfect record of ED not being sound deadening wizards, there have been several reports of the butyl v1² falling off of vertical and inverted surfaces. This is an absolute first in butyl adhesive products and frankly, until I saw it with my own eyes, I didn't think it was possible. In testing, the adhesive bond strength is by far the weakest I have encountered. For some reason the Mylar used on that version has such a strong curl that if the adhesive gets warm at all the Mylar literally pulls the mat off of the sheet metal.

Might ED have fixed this in the last few months? Who cares? First they sell asphalt and claim it is butyl. When they can't get away with that anymore they switch to butyl but use Mylar to save a few pennies. Since they obviously do no testing at all before introducing new sound deadening products to the market they ship a bunch of self detaching mat to customers and may well still be doing it. I think they have had more than their allotment of chances to get this right and customers should stay far away from eDead products.

 
- This is very true... effectiveness of the material depends on weight plus adhesion. That's why I like a liquid application first, wherever possible.
If I'm understanding you correctly and you are suggesting that liquid should go down first and then mat applied on top of that, I'm going to disagree. ED endorses this order, but they have to - liquids don't stick well to plastics and eDead's facing is plastic. ED's recommendation helps them sell more of THEIR products. It isn't based on any good science.

I'm convinced a much stronger argument can be made for mat first, liquid on top. When liquid cures it has a relatively rough and porous surface. As you point out, adhesive bond is a critical component of vibration damping effectiveness. The butyl adhesive used by decent mats will stick much better to the non-porous surface of sheet metal, plastic or automotive paint.

Constrained layer viscoelastic dampers rely on the interface between the adhesive and the constraining layer. As the substrate is deformed by vibration, sheer forces as the adhesive moves against the relatively less flexible constraining layer act as a brake against the energizing vibrations. The more rigid the constraining layer, the better this works. Practical considerations place an upper restriction on the thickness of the foil layer - you need to be able to cut it and shape it to contoured surfaces. Applying liquid over a CLVED mat reinforces the foil layers.

Other factors like increased mass and differences in viscosity and elasticity between the two product types apply no matter the order of application. Using both products together is getting into the fanatic range. I've seen benefits from doing both, but most people are going to be better off using one vibration damper type and then moving on to absorbers and barriers as needed.

 
Sure is a LOT of technical mumbo jumbo in this thread for what seems like a simple subject.

Pick something you can afford, apply it properly and be done with it. That's what I did with the Peel & Seal and it's working fine, contrary to what others may have you believe and I've had NONE of the issues they mention.

I've also never used any of the name brand deadeners, so I can't comment on them since I have no experience with them....

 
Sure is a LOT of technical mumbo jumbo in this thread for what seems like a simple subject.
Pick something you can afford, apply it properly and be done with it. That's what I did with the Peel & Seal and it's working fine, contrary to what others may have you believe and I've had NONE of the issues they mention.

I've also never used any of the name brand deadeners, so I can't comment on them since I have no experience with them....
Seems odd for someone on a car audio forum to be dismissive of technical discussions, but there you go. I was very clear that Peel & Seal doesn't have a 100% failure rate. It does have a significant failure rate and that rate increases each summer. You may well be one of those who comes back after next summer to report that you should have paid attention - your P&S just melted. I hope not.

In any case, your good luck doesn't disprove the science. Some people smoke a pack pf cigarettes a day and don't die from a smoking related disease. Doesn't make smoking a clever thing to do. Just because you have been lucky doesn't mean that others will and it definitely doesn't mean that asphalt can be as effective and reliable as butyl. As explained earlier in this thread, butyl products can be more economical that asphalt because they accomplish much more per unit of area. Might want to fight your way through some of the mumbo-jumbo before making unsupportable assertions that may cause problems for other people.

 
Real nice opinion's guy's love reading all this information also. i never knew there was so much to know about sound deadner etc.... . be sure to keep posting up here guy's //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif.

 
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