dimming lights

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Goddyd4me [

see chris i actually suggested a cap

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 

[crispy highs 10+ year member]

Chris,

I didn't say that it wouldn't supply amps, it does, but just for short bursts up to 10,000 amps of a peak lasting less than 10 seconds or so. If you keep cranking though, the cap cannot supply the current when it's not getting enough current itself.

It will save the alternator, but the system will fail inevitably........//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

I like caps myself and use them, but their not a fix it all if your electrical system can't keep up..........I'm sure you must have been there before.

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by crispy highs If you keep cranking though, the cap cannot supply the current when it's not getting enough current itself.

I see what your saying of course a cap can't keep up with what your talking about......

if "music is what is being listened too then you have to concider that "music" doesn't make the amps draw a steady current cause it is "dynamic" in nature---------you would need test tones for that-------which is "undynamic"------steady tone

music has whats called a "crest factor" ---------you must be say What the f*ck is he going talk about now-------------//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

crest factor -------------- it is the RATIO of the AVERAGE signal to the PEAK basivy a measure of HOW dynamic the signal is

most main stream music has a crest factor of 5/1 ----10/1

what this means is ---- the peak is 5-10 times the average signal

say you had a 100W amp and had the gain set for 1/1 meaning you set the amps gain at 2v and feed it a 2v max signal from the HU

k------100w amp listening to music that is 10/1 -----------------

this means most of the time the amp will only draw 10W of power until a bass note is hit the the full 100W will be used

on a song that is 5/1 the amp would only be using 20W of power on average

you see it is the peaks that dim lights/discharge batteries/ fry alternators

with a cap in place it will help fill the peak demands and buffer the load

caps simply help stiffen the load & voltage---this can be clearly seen on a scope reading the charging system

 

[crispy highs 10+ year member]

What's up Chris,

Thanks for the lesson, but we're not talking about 2 volts at 10 watts and a recording level ratio of 1/10. We're talking about a man pumping out the full 12 to 14.4 volts constantly with low crests at maybe 9 volts at the lowest and the peaks at 14.4 volts. When this happens, the voltage being supplied by the alternator drops significantly, to say 11 volts or lower.......this can be clearly seen with a digital lightning cap and so cannot supply the full bass power and the headlights at the same time. Most amps will accept as low as 5 volts and still put out power, but only at half the rate. A cars headlights is designed for 12 volts only and is not as flexible........//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif as an amplifier, causing the dimming effect.

If the kid installed a cap, it will help some, but not at full power all the time. Anyone not having enough current/amps will experience dimming lights and diminishing sound quality as the voltage drops. Including muddy bass and fried equipment, such as alternators, amps, and speakers................//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif Regardless of a stiffening cap.

Also, we're not just talking about voltage, we're also talking about amperage. If the kid is drawing more amperage from the alternator than it was designed to put out, the result is always going to be the same..............................a voltage drop

"SORRY IT'S SO LONG"

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by crispy highs Thanks for the lesson, but we're not talking about 2 volts at 10 watts and a recording level ratio of 1/10. We're talking about a man pumping out the full 12 to 14.4 volts constantly with low crests at maybe 9 volts at the lowest and the peaks at 14.4 volts.

you did grasp the leason----- the crest has nothing to do with the charging system voltages------------- it in reference to the program signal

When this happens, the voltage being supplied by the alternator drops significantly, to say lower than 11 volts or lower.......this can be clearly seen with a digital lightning cap and so cannot supply the full bass power and the headlights at the same time. Most amps will accept as low as 5 volts and still put out power, but only at half the rate. A cars headlights is designed for 12 volts only and is not as flexible........//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif as an amplifier, causing the dimming effect. your making this harder than it neeeds be

i'm not saying that a cap will STOP the voltage drop---------just that it will stiffen it

If the kid installed a cap, it will help some, but not at full power all the time.

thatis when it would hep--------when the amp draw peaks--------

Anyone not having enough current/amps will experience dimming lights and diminishing sound quality as the voltage drops. Including muddy bass and fried equipment, such as alternators, amps, and speakers................//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif Regardless of a stiffening cap.

you shouldn't make such claims ----

Also, we're not just talking about voltage, we're also talking about amperage. If the kid is drawing more amperage from the alternator than it was designed to put out, the result is always going to be the same..............................a voltage drop

yup which would be less if there was a cap ---------get it

 

[crispy highs 10+ year member]

yup which would be less if there was a cap ---------get it [/b]

Yes, I get that you understand partially......If I just told you, you could visibly see the drop with the digital top.....the part you need to get is that visibly it's gonna keep dropping to failure.......(cut-off ) Yes, the cap will slow the process, but it will still fail.........

Get it.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif ...............lol

This all depends on the alternator output, information which I don't believe we have yet, anyways, a lot goes into factoring what could solve this problem.

Let me just tell you this Chris, I had the same problem and I had already installed a 1.0 farad cap, but my alternator was only putting out 65 amps. What I was drawing however, was well over 100 amps......and guess what?.......it was fine for about 5 minutes, but after that it ate up that cap storage for lunch and the whole system would shut down after dimming the lights with every pound. So I'm just telling you guys from experience, but you could go on with the theories and learn the hard way.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif

 

[cooldoctorb 10+ year member]

i may be wrong but if your lights are dimming on heavy bass notes than a stiffning cap should solve your proplem. Just get the right one. The point of a cap is to store energy and when needed it releses it that's why they make differnt sizes to hold more or less energy.

 

[cooldoctorb 10+ year member]

Ya your right but he said it was only on serious bass which I'm just asuming it's only happing every once in a while.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[cooldoctorb 10+ year member]

Hay not trying to make you sound bad but I don't think those songs have 30hz cont. for 5min probly not even 15sec. you can't even hear sound below 20hz so why would they have 30hz running throughout the sond it would sound stupid.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by crispy highs
Yes, I get that you understand partially......If I just told you, you could visibly see the drop with the digital top.....the part you need to get is that visibly it's gonna keep dropping to failure.......(cut-off ) Yes, the cap will slow the process, but it will still fail.........

Get it.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif ...............lol

crisp------- first you aren't pulling 100A @ 100% duty cycle unless you listen to test tones.---------
digital tops on caps defeats the purpose

you could go on with the theories and learn the hard way.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif

Guess i'll just have to learn

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by chris229 put it this way a cap will only REcharge went there ISN'T a load--------- and dischage when there IS---------

 

they simply stiffen the voltage

Ahh and then we are missing the final part...

Once they DISCHARGE, they have to RECHARGE, and the alternator is STILL overtaxed from the REST of the system!!!!

Which means? YES! Caps are a LOAD!

They can help spread out current demand, but are in NO WAY a cure for this situation. Your problem is a LACK of available 14.4V, and a capacitor is just a STORAGE device, not the CREATOR. Caps are nothing more than a bandaid. Where do you think this 14.4V comes from inititally!

(used a lot of caps for fun...)

 

[crispy highs 10+ year member]

Chris,

Don't learn the hard way, "that's why we're all here telling our experiences, so that others won't have to live them."

I can tell that you're a bright kid cause I already learned something from you and I apreciate that. So don't take this discussion personal, cause I'm strong willed at times.......I'm only that way when i've personally been there and this time I have.

Man, I apreciate everytime you and everyone else on this board takes their time to come here and layout both what they think and what they know.

It's not about winning, it's about helping and that's all I'm trying to do.......//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

"HOPE IT'S COOL........"

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by chris229 guys-------- some thing that are wrong

 

a cap is not a load UNLESS the alternator's voltage is above the caps voltage----------this only happens ------------when he load is reduced or stopped the cap will then charge an then NOT become a load again

Gee chris, what happens when your lights dim? Ohh yes... I forgot... The reference voltage drops. Sooooo.. caps = a load.

 

Originally posted by chris229 caps aren't loads------caps aren't loads----caps aren't loads

I don't know where this recent talk of them being load is coming from but they're not

Yes they are, you just stated as such in the aforementioned portion of your post, where I just pointed it out to you.

 

Originally posted by chris229 they stiffen the voltage -----------they have been around for alot of years now and are well understood. They are USED for the same purpose in millions of devices-------

 

Don't make me get out

 

for one----------almost every device that you plug in the wall----- they stiffen the chopped AC voltage

 

Umm.. that is called DC voltage, a capacitor cannot pass AC, that is what happens when you pass AC via a bridge rectifier and usually an isolation transformer.

 

Originally posted by chris229 but I guess they are REALLY just loads---right?

 

Anything that demands a draw from the system is a load... Period.

 

Originally posted by chris229 learn your electrical knowledge OUTSIDE of car audio---------

 

I have, how about you?

 

Originally posted by chris229 what makes you guys believe laws of electricity some how DON'T apply to car audio

 

I just don't get it---------------- caps stiffen --------that's what their design helps them to do

 

Don't make me get out richard clarks mapping of a vehicle charging system with and without a capacitor in it... You won't like it.

 

And stop talking to everyone like you are higher than them, they are here to learn, not be belittled by you.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by crispy highs Chris,

I didn't say that it wouldn't supply amps, it does, but just for short bursts up to 10,000 amps of a peak lasting less than 10 seconds or so. If you keep cranking though, the cap cannot supply the current when it's not getting enough current itself.

It will save the alternator, but the system will fail inevitably........//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

I like caps myself and use them, but their not a fix it all if your electrical system can't keep up..........I'm sure you must have been there before.

10 seconds is an extreme overstatement... about a tenth of a second would be more accurate...

You are completely correct, they will not assist if a system is already severely bogged down.. They'll help moderate the dips, so it almost doesn't look like your lights are dimming, but that load is still present on your alternator, which is the problem in the first place. You want available power, make it, don't try to store it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine
Once they DISCHARGE, they have to RECHARGE, and the alternator is STILL overtaxed from the REST of the system!!!!

help me--------------------------------------------------------------- I can't get through to you people----------------------------
A CAP WILL NOT BECOME A LOAD UNTILL THE ALTERNATOR VOLTAGE IS HIGHER THAN THE CAPS

THIS MEANS------------- IT WILL NOT BECOME A LOAD UNTIL THE SYSTEMS LOAD IS REMOVED FROM THE ALTERNATOR

Which means? YES! Caps are a LOAD!

my god man--------they use caps everywhere-------- for this purpose------matter of fact in your computer right NOW

They can help spread out current demand, but are in NO WAY a cure for this situation. Your problem is a LACK of available 14.4V, and a capacitor is just a STORAGE device, not the CREATOR. Caps are nothing more than a bandaid. Where do you think this 14.4V comes from inititally!

yes----------storage------------which they RELEASE on a higher load tothe charging system