dimming lights

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Give me a break chris... Name a few good caps with low ESR... Look at what Brax charges for their "super" capacitor once... You think any regular user is going to grab it?

If you are going to shout something, you had better examine all of your bases.

Those links have everything to do with the subject matter, find a very well rated ESR capacitor in a common car audio store, or for that matter, one that has one that is visible for the common user.

Or for that matter, one that a common user will buy.

Those graphs show exactly what the garden variety cheap caps that most buy, are going to do for them. NOTHING.

We are not going to sit here and split caps up... Because you have to know where the good ones are and where to find them. You didn't even suggest a good brand in the first place, all you did was flail your arms around and scream at everyone on this thread and treat them like fools.

I saw it, and got pissed, and got in your face.

Stop talking down to people. You are no better than anyone else here, neither am I.

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine Since you added more to it oh wise one... I'll add more..

 

Everything has been read, it's quite pertinent to the subject matter at hand, or did that just pass you by...

Nice try though buddy, you won't slow me down...

 

I've enjoyed this enough, I'm getting almost too much enjoyment out of it... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

Keep it goin chris, I'm sure you can blindside someone in your meanderings...

 

Like I said, there is only one source for 14.4V power...

 

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif

yes I really am lost-----------
you said you know what RC thread was about--------- it about the uslessness of high ESR caps

so why did you post it?

it has nothing to do with what we are talking about----thats a whole different thread

let it be understood that---------------we both should be talking about low ESR designs for high current applications-------car audio

there are 2 sources of 14.4v power when a cap is in the system------ correct?

and we are talking about LOW ESR one right------- lets get that strait

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine One last re-excerpt from RC's post for chris, that is ESR independant, because he seems hung up on it...

 

 

Things to note:

 

* Nothing useful for under 1 farad per kW

* Caps then were rather expensive, and were built correctly. Not so the case these days.. There is a reason they are so cheap.

* Class D current draw has helped nearly eliminate this problem since we aren't using a/b hybrids for subwoofer amplifiers much anymore. Lower current demand rules.

slow down ---------
first he is talking about -------------------------

way back when ----------

A/B design use more current---right?

well he is saying that back then you need at least 1F to see results

and that NOW with class D designs you wouldn't need as much to see results

simple

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by chris229 yes I really am lost-----------

 

you said you know what RC thread was about--------- it about the uslessness of high ESR caps

 

so why did you post it?

 

it has nothing to do with what we are talking about----thats a whole different thread

 

let it be understood that---------------we both should be talking about low ESR designs for high current applications-------car audio

 

there are 2 sources of 14.4v power when a cap is in the system------ correct?

and we are talking about LOW ESR one right------- lets get that strait

Wrong, there is only one source of 14.4V power. Once that cap is drained, it's a problem, not a help. Does that cap *create* power? Then it is a load. It takes it to store a charge. It's a storage device, not a creator. Hook up a load to it, does it stay at 14.4V when there is no assistance to it, or does the voltage start to drop when the plates discharge?

Why post it, why not? It is quite pertient to the subject matter.

Problem 1. You talk to everyone like they are morons. It needs to stop. People come here to learn, not be attacked by you.

Problem 2. You base your assumptions on illogic. Nobody is going to *know* you mean a low ESR design. The posted link is proof of what a good majority of consumers are putting in their car, and how useless it is becoming.

Problem 3. You *assume* the load is going to vanish from a vehicle's charging system. You are incorrect. The music doesn't just stop, the car doesn't just shut down, the alternator is still hot, and taxed.

Lets try and see if you can work in the real world... Do you know where a lot of this light dimming comes from? Think of the music for a minute... do you think that is a brief burst? Not a chance! Most well designed amplifiers have enough power supply reserve capacitance in them to handle a dynamic snap of a kick drum, but not a low belt of a sine wave from bass mekanik. (I believe that is how it is spelled)

Half of it is severe bass tracks, modified sine waves, warbles, that carry out in a manner that is just crazy... but people gobble it up! Where is your cap going to come in handy then?

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine Give me a break chris... Name a few good caps with low ESR... Look at what Brax charges for their "super" capacitor once... You think any regular user is going to grab it?

give me a link for the brax cap------does it have the correct ESR? any cap with better than .0025 ohm
If you are going to shout something, you had better examine all of your bases.

Those links have everything to do with the subject matter, find a very well rated ESR capacitor in a common car audio store, or for that matter, one that has one that is visible for the common user.

Or for that matter, one that a common user will buy. that link is only about super caps you know the 5-15-50 F types-------- not the can style

so for that reason--------it NOT what we are talking about

Those graphs show exactly what the garden variety cheap caps that most buy, are going to do for them. NOTHING.

those aren't garden variety--they are super caps
and are useless

We are not going to sit here and split caps up... Because you have to know where the good ones are and where to find them. You didn't even suggest a good brand in the first place, all you did was flail your arms around and scream at everyone on this thread and treat them like fools.

I saw it, and got pissed, and got in your face.

Stop talking down to people. You are no better than anyone else here, neither am I. [/b]

I always say low ESR--------- when taling about caps
better than .0025 ohm

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Funny, you always say low ESR... I'll have to go back and re-read the thread to try and find where you actually said it.. because I know you didn't...

You are looking through rose colored glasses like the people out there having light dimming have listening preferences like you or I... Tell me, have you ever built a SQ vehicle and honestly NEEDED stiffening caps at all, or have you just added them for giggles? I'll say it straight out. I added them because they matched the install, no other reason but that. Lights never dimmed either... but they never did prior to either... And that was because I was smart and spent my money on a 180 amp alternator.

You can't base these assumptions that people are of a moderate listening sort... Look at 99% of the dimming issues... Rap, heavy rap, bass music, dance/techno, mixes with sine bombs hidden in the background...

Nothing momentary about those listening tastes...

Now my classical music, sure... Or me listening to Rush and their amazing drummer play it up one night with the volume up? That's dynamic... Some of this new stuff? Not by a long shot...

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Brax doesn't call them capacitors, they got smart and called them power stabalizers...

http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/brax_helix/english/brax/power_stabilizer.html

The helix line drops to the term capacitor, but specs are still remotely vague on all units. They do give you a good threshold by saying under 1 mOhm. Aside from that, nada.

Go to some major brands and find the ESR for me.

Look at PG

Look at RF

Find anything?

Then we have batcaps... While they had some nice women in their booth at IASCA finals... that's about as far as I dare go with that subject... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[crispy highs 10+ year member]

ALRIGHT GUYS,

you're both getting out of hand.........//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif

Chris, in the navy I was an avionics technician. I repaired more equipment than I care to remember, everything that the pilot touched, I fixed. Radio's, radar's, armament systems and anything on that F-14 TOMCAT that needed repair. And if you're now talking to an engineer.......what gives you any qualifications to base all these theories?

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

[

so can we agree that there are 2 sources-------when the cap is charged?

or 1 when it's DISCHARGED---------same thing

can we agree here?----- it a load when the alternator is above it voltage ------NOT ANY OTHER TIME

can we agree that we are not talking about HIGH ESR caps and that would mean them graphs are useless too?

can we agree that music is dynamic-----lets say 10/1-5/1 crest factor?

can we agree that caps DON'T work on bass CDs

Lets try and see if you can work in the real world... Do you know where a lot of this light dimming comes from? Think of the music for a minute... do you think that is a brief burst? Not a chance! Most well designed amplifiers have enough power supply reserve capacitance in them to handle a dynamic snap of a kick drum, but not a low belt of a sine wave from bass mekanik. (I believe that is how it is spelled)

Half of it is severe bass tracks, modified sine waves, warbles, that carry out in a manner that is just crazy... but people gobble it up! Where is your cap going to come in handy then? ]

I 've never ever stated caps work on TEST tones
as that isn't music-------------- I always ask if music is listened to on a system

so can we agree that the program material is music?---------if not then I will not continue this thread-----as I never made statements that they help on test tone listening

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine Brax doesn't call them capacitors, they got smart and called them power stabalizers...

http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/brax_helix/english/brax/power_stabilizer.html

the brax looks good-------- so what were you saying it too much $$$$???

Go to some major brands and find the ESR for me.

Look at PG

Look at RF

Find anything?

can find spec on RF website
nothing on PG either

Then we have batcaps... While they had some nice women in their booth at IASCA finals... that's about as far as I dare go with that subject... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

yup bat caps are useless too

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by crispy highs ALRIGHT GUYS,

you're both getting out of hand.........//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif

Chris, in the navy I was an avionics technician. I repaired more equipment than I care to remember, everything that the pilot touched, I fixed. Radio's, radar's, armament systems and anything on that F-14 TOMCAT that needed repair. And if you're now talking to an engineer.......what gives you any qualifications to base all these theories?

what theories?

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

we seem to be getting side tracked on the ESR thing. Can we all agree that we are talking about LOW ESR caps---------- as we aren't debating ESR---------and I have never said to use anything elese

read my other post---------for other agreements

can we agree ---------? we have to have comon ground then we can talk about this stuff

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by chris229 we seem to be getting side tracked on the ESR thing. Can we all agree that we are talking about LOW ESR caps---------- as we aren't debating ESR---------and I have never said to use anything elese

 

read my other post---------for other agreements

 

can we agree ---------? we have to have comon ground then we can talk about this stuff

Find us one commonly used, well documented, low ESR cap.

Can't discuss the music until you have the system hooked up.

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by chris229 [

so can we agree that there are 2 sources-------when the cap is charged?

 

or 1 when it's DISCHARGED---------same thing

 

 

can we agree here?----- it a load when the alternator is above it voltage ------NOT ANY OTHER TIME

 

 

can we agree that we are not talking about HIGH ESR caps and that would mean them graphs are useless too?

 

 

can we agree that music is dynamic-----lets say 10/1-5/1 crest factor?

 

can we agree that caps DON'T work on bass CDs I 've never ever stated caps work on TEST tones

 

as that isn't music-------------- I always ask if music is listened to on a system

 

so can we agree that the program material is music?---------if not then I will not continue this thread-----as I never made statements that they help on test tone listening

Music is where the reserve capacitance of the power supply comes into factor.

Light dimming should not be an issue with standard music. If it is, wait till you start playing bass tracks...

I'll agree with just about anything as soon as you stop talking down to people here.

 

[chris229 10+ year member]

Originally posted by jlaine Find us one commonly used, well documented, low ESR cap.

 

 

Can't discuss the music until you have the system hooked up.

why we aren't debating this

can style stingers-----.00175ohm

100A would = about a .17V drop looks good to me