Differences in frequency

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

Evidently not. SPL is OBJECTIVE, "loudness" is subjective!
John Kuthe...

So how did you mathematically get 10dB with either SPL or "loudness"?

 

[staan]

The answer to the original question is yes, to a degree. A semitone difference between say a c and c sharp is only a few hz, so up to a certain frequency you can hear the differences in small increments of frequency. people who have better pitch than others will be able to discern those differences more easily.

in your example using a 1 hz increment will be very hard to discern. the higher the frequency the harder the smaller differences will be apparent, this has more to do with the thinness or thickness of each persons eardrums.

 

[JohnKuthe]

So how did you mathematically get 10dB with either SPL or "loudness"?

National Bureau Of Standards standardized through testing what increments of SPL are, they are objective facts, standardized. The logarithmic scale fits the data.

John Kuthe...

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

National Bureau Of Standards standardized through testing what increments of SPL are, they are objective facts, standardized. The logarithmic scale fits the data.
John Kuthe...

That doesn't say anything about 10dB = 2x the reference value? Where do you get 10dB? You claim it's mathematically justified. Please show me the math.

OP in order to not derail the thread completely I was always under the impression lower frequencies are easier to distinguish simply because the relative range of the lower octaves covers less frequencies than the the higher octaves so any shift at the low end of the spectrum could be slightly more noticeable than those at the higher end. This is pure speculation on my part, and likely wrong. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[mjoekingz28]

Good point Souldrop. Just as with age. A one year old to a two year old versus a seventy year old to a seventy one year old person.

 

[The Camry]

Its double the power for 3db increase. The 10db is actually human perception. It takes a 10db increase for humans to subjectively hear double the spl.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

And that 10dB is just a rule of thumb; there is no math to support it despite what @The Electrical Engineer says.

 

[JohnKuthe]

[quote name='Souldrop']And that 10dB is just a rule of thumb; there is no math to support it despite what @The Electrical Engineer says.[/QUOTE]

There's plenty of math out there, go find it!

This is Caraudio.com not MathTutor.com!

John Kuthe...

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

There's plenty of math out there, go find it!
This is Caraudio.com not MathTutor.com!

John Kuthe...

You complain all the time that no one backs up their posts with verifiable facts; I'm asking you to give me proof on how you can claim that 10 dB is objectively derived from logarithmic functions. If you did know Math as well as you claim then it wouldn't be any issue to slam down a few lines of math and prove me wrong. You can't, and your ego won't let you admit you were wrong. *shrug* seems like you apparently fit right in with the "denizens of caraudio.com":santa:

Again sorry OP. I hate misinformation and I try to clear it up where I can in case anyone else reads through the thread..//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif

 

[JohnKuthe]

You complain all the time that no one backs up their posts with verifiable facts; I'm asking you to give me proof on how you can claim that 10 dB is objectively derived from logarithmic functions. If you did know Math as well as you claim then it wouldn't be any issue to slam down a few lines of math and prove me wrong. You can't, and your ego won't let you admit you were wrong. *shrug* seems like you apparently fit right in with the "denizens of caraudio.com":santa:
Again sorry OP. I hate misinformation and I try to clear it up where I can in case anyone else reads through the thread..//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif

It's a fact about logarithms, go look it up! Exposure to engineering facts might be good for you!

John Kuthe...

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

It's a fact about logarithms, go look it up! Exposure to engineering facts might be good for you!
John Kuthe...

I'm exposed to real engineering everyday since I actually work in the field....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fro.gif.c695f1f814b01c4ad99fe7f8cccadd29.gif

It's not a fact about logarithms. The number 10dB doesn't magically fall out as dB. Either admit you're wrong, show some proof, or quit posting misinformation. I'm done cluttering this thread until you can make an educated, substantive post.

 

[staan]

Table chart sound pressure levels SPL level test normal voice sound levels pressure sound intensity ratio decibel comparison chart conversion of sound pressure to sound intensity noise sound units decibel level comparison of common sounds calculation is a good reference to try and understand how spl works on a logarithmic scale.

a doubling of perceived loudness is like 3x the amount of air pressure, and you can see on the scales that every 10db's or so you have an increase of 3x and more.

so the higher you go in the db scale means 10 db gets your more than twice as loud, but 10 is a good rule of thumb

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

Table chart sound pressure levels SPL level test normal voice sound levels pressure sound intensity ratio decibel comparison chart conversion of sound pressure to sound intensity noise sound units decibel level comparison of common sounds calculation is a good reference to try and understand how spl works on a logarithmic scale.
a doubling of perceived loudness is like 3x the amount of air pressure, and you can see on the scales that every 10db's or so you have an increase of 3x and more.

so the higher you go in the db scale means 10 db gets your more than twice as loud, but 10 is a good rule of thumb

Thank you!

 

[JohnKuthe]

Thank you!

Exactly! Nature doesn't follow the math exactly, but generally!

John Kuthe...

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

Exactly! Nature doesn't follow the math exactly, but generally!
John Kuthe...

Umm no. 10dB is based on average perceived loudness (aka psychoacoustics)....it varies by person. It doesn't magically come out of logarithms like you claimed...