difference between amp and sub clipping?

[jsluss17 10+ year member]

is there a difference between these two? like if you're clipping the amp does that automatically mean your clipping the sub too?

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[Ionakron 10+ year member]

It is the signal the amplifier is putting out that is clipped/unclean/distorted. In other words, the amp is what clips because its trying to put out more power than its physically able to.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

you know how u speaker moves in and out, right?..picture the SIGNAL going through your amp as wave like....up and down smooth peaks and dips like slow rolling waves on the ocean or a lake. picture the time it takes for a wave to pass as 1 second..that would be 1 Hz...20 waves per second as 20 Hz....20,000 waves per second as 20Khz.

Your head unit (source) sends a low voltage signal to your Amp's inputs. Some Heads have 1v signal outs, some have 6v signal outs... Your amp has input voltage adjustment (Gain) to match the input signal from your HU. You must adjust the gain to match the voltage coming into the amp's input section. If your head is sending 3 volts to the amp, set the gain to 3v...this is usually done (in most cases) by eyeballing the gain setting. My Hu puts out 4.7 volts, my amp's gain is adjustable from 5.5v to .25mv. My gain is turned almost all the way down on my amp to closely match the 4.7v input signal.

If you are sending 5v to the amp and you have the gain set too high (turned up), you are telling the amp it is getting less of a signal than it actually is. Then you turn up the volume on your HU and say, at 3/4 volume,you are sending that 5v to the amp. It thought it had 5v a long time ago and you are overdriving the input section, which turns those smooth rolling signal waves into square looking waves...so, your speaker is designed to reproduce smooth rolling waves..instead, it is getting these waves that are distorted and chopped off on the top and bottom (clipped). The voice coil in the speaker starts to overheat and fail due to trying to reproduce a signal it is not designed to handle in the first place..

You can also overdrive your amps' input section by boosting the signal too much at a given frequency, say 40 cycles per second, or 40Hz, creating a clipped signal.

 

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

you know how u speaker moves in and out, right?..picture the SIGNAL going through your amp as wave like....up and down smooth peaks and dips like slow rolling waves on the ocean or a lake. picture the time it takes for a wave to pass as 1 second..that would be 1 Hz...20 waves per second as 20 Hz....20,000 waves per second as 20Khz.
Your head unit (source) sends a low voltage signal to your Amp's inputs. Some Heads have 1v signal outs, some have 6v signal outs... Your amp has input voltage adjustment (Gain) to match the input signal from your HU. You must adjust the gain to match the voltage coming into the amp's input section. If your head is sending 3 volts to the amp, set the gain to 3v...this is usually done (in most cases) by eyeballing the gain setting. My Hu puts out 4.7 volts, my amp's gain is adjustable from 5.5v to .25mv. My gain is turned almost all the way down on my amp to closely match the 4.7v input signal.

If you are sending 5v to the amp and you have the gain set too high (turned up), you are telling the amp it is getting less of a signal than it actually is. Then you turn up the volume on your HU and say, at 3/4 volume,you are sending that 5v to the amp. It thought it had 5v a long time ago and you are overdriving the input section, which turns those smooth rolling signal waves into square looking waves...so, your speaker is designed to reproduce smooth rolling waves..instead, it is getting these waves that are distorted and chopped off on the top and bottom (clipped). The voice coil in the speaker starts to overheat and fail due to trying to reproduce a signal it is not designed to handle in the first place..

You can also overdrive your amps' input section by boosting the signal too much at a given frequency, say 40 cycles per second, or 40Hz, creating a clipped signal.

And the most helpful post of the day award goes to:

...

Quackhead! Good job, buddy! Take a bow!

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/handclap.gif.0c301076f534e244f0460706894f19e0.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/celebrate.gif.82eef51c49c9919296cb60fd0d148863.gif

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

I recently found out about this and I think it's a pretty good quick explanation: A tutorial on gain setting and amplifier power usage

The best educational source I've seen, covering a lot of topics pertaining to car audio is this video:

The patience to watch this entire video will really pay off for anyone who really wants to know what's going on with their car audio equipment and how to make it sound awesome.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

..i wuz jus tryin to give the breifest explanation without going too deep, bra...lol..It was hard not to respond after reading the first reply to this thread.. It actually took some restraint to keep from going in too deep on the subject while touching on what the signal is to begin with...like I did not give a crap how long a 40 hz waveform actually is, until I began trying to make someone in a crowd feel it at 130db from 100 feet away.....shoot, u think it is fun making u coke can jump around on the console in the confines of u car, try making it happen on a dance floor..a whole 'nother level of fun

 

[jsluss17 10+ year member]

you know how u speaker moves in and out, right?..picture the SIGNAL going through your amp as wave like....up and down smooth peaks and dips like slow rolling waves on the ocean or a lake. picture the time it takes for a wave to pass as 1 second..that would be 1 Hz...20 waves per second as 20 Hz....20,000 waves per second as 20Khz.
Your head unit (source) sends a low voltage signal to your Amp's inputs. Some Heads have 1v signal outs, some have 6v signal outs... Your amp has input voltage adjustment (Gain) to match the input signal from your HU. You must adjust the gain to match the voltage coming into the amp's input section. If your head is sending 3 volts to the amp, set the gain to 3v...this is usually done (in most cases) by eyeballing the gain setting. My Hu puts out 4.7 volts, my amp's gain is adjustable from 5.5v to .25mv. My gain is turned almost all the way down on my amp to closely match the 4.7v input signal.

If you are sending 5v to the amp and you have the gain set too high (turned up), you are telling the amp it is getting less of a signal than it actually is. Then you turn up the volume on your HU and say, at 3/4 volume,you are sending that 5v to the amp. It thought it had 5v a long time ago and you are overdriving the input section, which turns those smooth rolling signal waves into square looking waves...so, your speaker is designed to reproduce smooth rolling waves..instead, it is getting these waves that are distorted and chopped off on the top and bottom (clipped). The voice coil in the speaker starts to overheat and fail due to trying to reproduce a signal it is not designed to handle in the first place..

You can also overdrive your amps' input section by boosting the signal too much at a given frequency, say 40 cycles per second, or 40Hz, creating a clipped signal.

that was helpful as **** thank you very much. so if my headunit puts out 4 volts i wanna get the gain at about 4 volts on the amp? it was a little higher than that and i was clipping i'm pretty sure so i'm hoping this helps

 

[SuperSaeYoung]

If the amp is to match the head unit why do people recommend sqrt(rms*ohms)

 

[IonRL205 10+ year member]

you know how u speaker moves in and out, right?..picture the SIGNAL going through your amp as wave like....up and down smooth peaks and dips like slow rolling waves on the ocean or a lake. picture the time it takes for a wave to pass as 1 second..that would be 1 Hz...20 waves per second as 20 Hz....20,000 waves per second as 20Khz.
Your head unit (source) sends a low voltage signal to your Amp's inputs. Some Heads have 1v signal outs, some have 6v signal outs... Your amp has input voltage adjustment (Gain) to match the input signal from your HU. You must adjust the gain to match the voltage coming into the amp's input section. If your head is sending 3 volts to the amp, set the gain to 3v...this is usually done (in most cases) by eyeballing the gain setting. My Hu puts out 4.7 volts, my amp's gain is adjustable from 5.5v to .25mv. My gain is turned almost all the way down on my amp to closely match the 4.7v input signal.

If you are sending 5v to the amp and you have the gain set too high (turned up), you are telling the amp it is getting less of a signal than it actually is. Then you turn up the volume on your HU and say, at 3/4 volume,you are sending that 5v to the amp. It thought it had 5v a long time ago and you are overdriving the input section, which turns those smooth rolling signal waves into square looking waves...so, your speaker is designed to reproduce smooth rolling waves..instead, it is getting these waves that are distorted and chopped off on the top and bottom (clipped). The voice coil in the speaker starts to overheat and fail due to trying to reproduce a signal it is not designed to handle in the first place..

You can also overdrive your amps' input section by boosting the signal too much at a given frequency, say 40 cycles per second, or 40Hz, creating a clipped signal.

That is horrible advice. You shouldn't not be eyeballing your gain because you may be clipping and won't even know it. You can still be clipping and not hear it. An O-scope would be the best way to go, or the DD-1, but if neither then should at least use a DMM.

Op do NOT just eyeball your gain. You will more than likely clip your shit.

 

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

If the amp is to match the head unit why do people recommend sqrt(rms*ohms)

Because you can't eyeball your gain, or know for sure exactly what your preout voltage is(depends on if your head unit has source level adjustment, volume, etc.)

The formula is precise, unfailing. Gain knobs aren't as simple as looking at the 5, looking at the .2(or whatever), and guessing where 4 would be.

That is horrible advice. You shouldn't not be eyeballing your gain because you may be clipping and won't even know it. You can still be clipping and not hear it. An O-scope would be the best way to go, or the DD-1, but if neither then should at least use a DMM.
Op do NOT just eyeball your gain. You will more than likely clip your shit.

Yeah, my liking/thanking of his post was more for the description of what clipping is. I didn't really even notice he said to try to look at the gain to choose where it goes.

 

[IonRL205 10+ year member]

Yeah, my liking/thanking of his post was more for the description of what clipping is. I didn't really even notice he said to try to look at the gain to choose where it goes.

Yeah, I don't get how he has good knowledge on the subject, but gives the worst way for the op to set his gain and the easiest way to clip his shit lol

 

[jsluss17 10+ year member]

Yeah, I don't get how he has good knowledge on the subject, but gives the worst way for the op to set his gain and the easiest way to clip his shit lol

yeah i just decided to turn it down and hope to get lucky and not be clipping now

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

If the amp is to match the head unit why do people recommend sqrt(rms*ohms)

WTF is that? square root of root mean squared of what?

 

[SuperSaeYoung]

WTF is that? square root of root mean squared of what?

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1294233&page=1#Post1294233

I might me be confused or on a different subject but if the amp gain is to match the head unit output why do people use rms of sub/amp multiply it by the ohms and square root it.

example

sqrt(rms*ohms)
sqrt(500*4)=44.72135954999579

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

RMS means "root mean squared" it's a handy way to find an average varience from 0 from a group of numbers (positive and negative mixed or the mean can be derived without the square and root). RMS does NOT mean power.

POWER = square root of (current * impedence), or current * voltage, or whatever other variation of the equasion

IMO unles you're playing one specific tone at a specific record level any form of "precision" gain setting is pointless. To match all potential unknown program material at unknown record levels cannot be done.

My method is head unit volume around 2/3 to 3/4 depending on the head unit, gain it up til it doesn't get any louder when you turn it up more, then turn it back a little bit. Except in cases of grossly over-powering speakers I've never blown stuff up with this method. The point is to have your max undistorted output somewhere before the top of the dial on your head unit so that you're not pushing that into a clipped signal when you need a little more gain to overcome low record levels. Anything you throw in for source material beyond your test track will require a little discression and knowing when to back off.

And I still have yet to fathom why everyone feels the need to use the term RMS in regards to an AC signal, considering 99% don't understand what it means, where it comes from and why it's not relevent.