Class D 4 channel

thanks bro! great info. couple questions though??1.) So class a/b's are really ineffecient at low volumes?? why is that??
because at low power they operate more like a class A amp which basically means more current flows through the output transistors whether there is signal being amplified or not. At high power they operate primarily as class B which is more efficient.

2.) What does "effecient" in terms of amps mean??
Efficiency in any setting is -- Power out/Power in x 100

It just tells you what % of the power drawn from the car's electrical system is converted into music power at the speaker terminals.

3.)when you say "15A rms" is A=amps???
Yes

4.) So when you double the wattage which is what I would be doing ( i want the jl 1000/1) there really is a bigger gap in D's effeciency compared to a/b's ineffeciency?
Actually, the JL slash amps aren't very efficient as class D's go, but it would be better than the typical a/b because of the efficiency differences at low power

5.) So with that info would you suggest definitely getting a class D sub amp since that is where the majority of your wattage is coming from???
If you have a smaller electrical system efficient amps are never a bad idea, especially at 1000w+.

6.) Lastly with the 1000w amp pulling lets say 25A full volume for a class D why do you have to have a 100 amp fuse???
because music doesn't at all resemble a constant current demand. It is highly dynamic. The amp may AVERAGE only 25A over the course of a song, but there will be moments where it needs 100A or more.

Amazing how much mis-information this thread contains. Wow......
ya???? please explain???
No kiddin' -- don't leave us hanging //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 
thanks bro! great info. couple questions though??1.) So class a/b's are really ineffecient at low volumes?? why is that??
It is analagous to doing a pushup. In the fully down, or fully up (for analogy, switched on or off) positions, you exert the least effort. a class D amplifier basically has the devices in one of the low-effort states or the other, and uses averaging to acheive an output that seems (and is) somewhere in between. the class B (and AB) largely operates the device in ONLY the high effort zones. class A, in this example, would be closest to someone sitting on your back while doing pushups. (the technical: a switch is either dropping 0V or passing 0A, giving 0W of loss in either state. an analog state in between these two is dropping some voltage and passing some current, leading to an amount of power being used. for low outputs, the device is dropping much more voltage then required, which means it uses more power then required, thus a reducution in efficiency from the best case)

2.) What does "effecient" in terms of amps mean??
power out vs power in. eg, if it takes 10W to output 1W, you have 10% efficiency.

3.)when you say "15A rms" is A=amps???
RMS, when correctly applied to voltage or current means "the equivilant DC value that could be used in a power calculation." eg, if you have a voltage or current that changes over time, its best to use an RMS value, as that will allow accurate calculation of power. This makes most sense for line voltages that have AVERAGE values of 0, but still provide power. "RMS" is also incorrectly applied to power ratings to mean "average" power. pretty much everytime you see "Watts RMS" you really are just seeing "Watts, average".

4.) So when you double the wattage which is what I would be doing ( i want the jl 1000/1) there really is a bigger gap in D's effeciency compared to a/b's ineffeciency?
pretty much, yes.

5.) So with that info would you suggest definitely getting a class D sub amp since that is where the majority of your wattage is coming from???
if that is your design goal. I personally have had bad luck with class D, and it seems like many of the "Amp repair" threads are issues with class D amps, though that may simply be due to the widespread nature. My issues occured during non-extreme conditions. That said, I would still go with Class D for woofer applications. in terms of sound quality, i've found that changing settings has the biggest effect. I had found that my class D amp was muddy, and switched to a class AB. later I found my class AB to be muddy and switched to my class D. in both cases resetting settings fixed that issue.

6.) Lastly with the 1000w amp pulling lets say 25A full volume for a class D why do you have to have a 100 amp fuse???
the fuse is there to protect the wire, not the amp. the amp will use its own fuse. a smaller fuse could be used to provide added protection to the wire in short circuit conditions, but is not required.

 
how exactly does 500w ever equal 15 amps?
It doesn't.
Maybe they were just random figures?
It can, and probably does a lot of the time.

Actually - with a class D amp I came up with something closer to 10A.

Those were my guesstimations for equivalent continuous current draw for an amp playing music.

How did I arrive at those numbers??

Assumed - class D efficiency at full volume = 75%

- class A/B efficiency at full volume = 60%

- Voltage = 14v

Class D at full volume reqires (500/.75) 666.7w --- 666.7/14 = 47.6A

Class A/B at full volume requires (500/.6) = 833.3w --- 833.3/14 = 59.5A

That is approximately what would be required playing sine waves at full volume.

MUSIC on the other hand requires substantially less power. The statistic I go with came from Carsound -- I believe it was stated that most commercially available music has a crest factor between 10% and 25%, and anything over about 33% could hardly be recognizable as music -- so I just divide maximum current by 3 to get an idea of current demand for music at full volume.

So with the class D you'd have 15.6A and with the A/B it would be 19.8A.

Now assuming the listener won't have it at full blast continuously -- ~10A and ~12-15A, respectively, seem like reasonable approximations to me.

 
Assuming 100% efficiency...
15A x 14.4v = 216 watts.

Every time, it doesn't matter if it's music or sine waves, you can't make 500 watts out of 15 amps of current draw, sorry man.
He is not talking about playing sine waves at full volume. Average current draw over a period of time with music will realistically be much lower.

 
He is not talking about playing sine waves at full volume. Average current draw over a period of time with music will realistically be much lower.
Here's a plot I took from a JBL pdf (jblpro.com). This represents a typical sample of music.

It paints the picture pretty clearly.

peaktorms.jpg


 
n2audio and thch, you guys rock!! thanks so much.... i guess what I am really trying to find out...over and over... to be sure is can I run 2 JL 300/2's and 1 1000/1 on my stock alternator with one of the best Kinetik batteries, and Big 3??????? A HO alt is not even an option because first they do not make one for my car and 2nd my car is a 2008 Honda Accord EX Sedan 2.4l 4cyl and i got the 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty with it and if by putting a new alt in meant bye bye warranty my wife, and myself, would kill me, heehe..

eddie

 
the latest alt info I could find on an Accord EX was '06 @ 136A. I would think they've either stayed the same since then or gotten bigger.

That's not a small alt, but I'm sure the stock electrical demand in in recent years is a lot higher than the old POS's I'm used to driving with 80-100A alts.

Personally - I wouldn't hesitate to go ahead and install it. If you don't crank it all the time it might (should) run fine. Regardless - I would get a DMM if I were you and take some voltage measurements once everything's in and running. If you're mantaining 13+ at idle with some accessories on and the system LOUD you're good to go.

 
LOL @ this thread!

Class D 4-channels are not a new thing. Some of them are known specifically for their clarity and lack of noise.

And depending on the vehicle, battery, your listening habits, and install, you can put a ton of watts on a stock alternator and be okay.

 
Listen to what thch had to say...

All I'll add is that if you are looking at full range class D's... consider looking for tripath amps instead...

It's a much better aproach for full range applications...

 
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