Center channel MTM for Logitech Z-5500.

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

Yes, I have. My opinion is justified as I see it, and to my ears, nothing compares to a well designed 3way set of towers.

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

Have you ever even listened to a quality full range setup?

Thats what I was thinking...
Simple fact is that a driver is going to beam. Whether the beaming is significant enough to affect the listening experience remains to be determined. Using smaller drivers pushes the point at which a driver starts beaming further up where the ear is less sensitive to fluctuations in frequency response. 3 inch drivers really are the best of both worlds, with a great mix of low end extension (to crossover to a subwoofer) and upper frequency response.

Yes, a driver does start beaning at a certain point. However, if the driver is 30 degrees off axis OR LESS, the beaming is less severe until a much higher point. For a 3 inch driver, usually its only the last octave which is affected. And who said the speakers had to be pointed perfectly forward? Introducing a little toe in (with reason) greatly helps the problem and makes in nearly inaudible playing test tones. With music I really can't tell the difference.

Science is a great guideline, but its music for goodness sake. Implementation is most of the battle //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Tweak, experiment, and enjoy!

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

Yes, I have. My opinion is justified as I see it, and to my ears, nothing compares to a well designed 3way set of towers.

I think that is pretty bold. For a three way system to sound like a coherent point source, the listener needs to be pretty far from the speakers. Otherwise, lobing is clearly audible if you are too close. Personally, I have to be at least 3 meters away from the 3-way front stage, otherwise it drives me crazy. That doesn't really work with all rooms since the last thing you want to do is be right up against the wall. Other5 than that, I agree. 3 ways are high up on my list as well. I still prefer the simplicity of full range drivers with woofers, but I will ever go to a traditional two way again.
Different strokes for different folks...

 

[ballstothewall 10+ year member]

Yes, I have. My opinion is justified as I see it, and to my ears, nothing compares to a well designed 3way set of towers.

Just curious, what style of full range stuff have you heard?

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

Just curious, what style of full range stuff have you heard?

The 3 way system I am referring to is seen here: http://clearwaveloudspeaker.googlepages.com/

It's the first set of speakers shown. Also, have a set of 2 ways as seen here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=361757&postcount=4

Both are done by the same guy, who lives about 20 minutes from me and does an outstanding job on his stuff.

EDIT: Woops, I answered the wrong question. I can't say for sure but one of my friends dad's was like you guys a full range driver in a t-line of some sort. He's very DIY too and follows the same kinds of designs you guys do. I do know it was a modded Fostex driver but which one I couldn't tell you.

Like I've said though, the 3 way design I heard fits my tastes and I prefer it largely over a full range driver.

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

Full range drivers only really shine when in open baffle IMO. Otherwise, they do sound a bit like described. Congested, overwhelmed, etc. Of course, this can be somewhat remedied with clever box stuffing techniques, but not 100%

This is largely due to box colouration, and effects all types of speaker designs. Simply put, I will NEVER go back to a boxed speaker for home audio again. Nothing compares for the best sound. No box colouration, frequency response in room is BETTER than a point source, and it is much more natural sounding. I suggest you give it a try, whether it be full range or 2/3 way. Yes you need 3 feet from the back wall, but speakers shouldn't be placed against the wall anyway.

 

[ballstothewall 10+ year member]

The 3 way system I am referring to is seen here: http://clearwaveloudspeaker.googlepages.com/
It's the first set of speakers shown. Also, have a set of 2 ways as seen here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=361757&postcount=4

Both are done by the same guy, who lives about 20 minutes from me and does an outstanding job on his stuff.

EDIT: Woops, I answered the wrong question. I can't say for sure but one of my friends dad's was like you guys a full range driver in a t-line of some sort. He's very DIY too and follows the same kinds of designs you guys do. I do know it was a modded Fostex driver but which one I couldn't tell you.

Like I've said though, the 3 way design I heard fits my tastes and I prefer it largely over a full range driver.

If you ever get a chance you should listen a Clark Blumenstein/Terry Cain/Jason Flanary built full range setup. That is ear sex.

I've never heard a standard 3-way setup that I liked as much as a well done standard 2-way, horns, or full range. And I have heard some very well done 3-way setups while touring the RMAF a couple years ago.

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

Full range drivers only really shine when in open baffle IMO. Otherwise, they do sound a bit like described. Congested, overwhelmed, etc. Of course, this can be somewhat remedied with clever box stuffing techniques, but not 100%
This is largely due to box colouration, and effects all types of speaker designs. Simply put, I will NEVER go back to a boxed speaker for home audio again. Nothing compares for the best sound. No box colouration, frequency response in room is BETTER than a point source, and it is much more natural sounding. I suggest you give it a try, whether it be full range or 2/3 way. Yes you need 3 feet from the back wall, but speakers shouldn't be placed against the wall anyway.

Honestly though, my needs for the speaker go outside of a listening room. I use them for HT, loud music, games, parties, whatever beckons at the time.

That's why my tastes lean me toward the speakers I enjoy, much more versatile. If I were in a quiet listening room, sitting in a fixed position, I think I would enjoy the full rangers much more. Also, the T-lines for these full rangers enhance midbass mostly because of being able to deflect the back wave. I've seen some closed ended T-lines that do that and the perceived sound is much better than a simple bass reflex, sealed, bipole or anything along those lines, outside of open baffle.

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

Honestly though, my needs for the speaker go outside of a listening room. I use them for HT, loud music, games, parties, whatever beckons at the time.
That's why my tastes lean me toward the speakers I enjoy, much more versatile. If I were in a quiet listening room, sitting in a fixed position, I think I would enjoy the full rangers much more. Also, the T-lines for these full rangers enhance midbass mostly because of being able to deflect the back wave. I've seen some closed ended T-lines that do that and the perceived sound is much better than a simple bass reflex, sealed, bipole or anything along those lines, outside of open baffle.

I guess I have grown older... not really into loud any more //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif Yes TLs have a very nice sound to them indeed... still wont go back though. Nothing disappears into the room like my current open baffle set up.

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

Heh, well considering I'm still in college and enjoy crankin it sometime, a full range open baffle or t-line wont fit my current tastes/needs.

Regardless, it's still my opinion that a well done 3 way can sound better than a full range. I love the high end treble sparkle of ribbons and no full range driver I have ever heard can give me what ribbons do. Not to mention the dynamic bass of having 4 7" drivers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Not to mention the amount of adjustable effects can be tweaked by switching out components in the crossover. I like hot tweeters so with these DIY speakers, I can switch out the resistor with ease and instant greater top end.

Anyways, to each his own and that's why there are different products out there.

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

Heh, well considering I'm still in college and enjoy crankin it sometime, a full range open baffle or t-line wont fit my current tastes/needs.
Regardless, it's still my opinion that a well done 3 way can sound better than a full range. I love the high end treble sparkle of ribbons and no full range driver I have ever heard can give me what ribbons do. Not to mention the dynamic bass of having 4 7" drivers //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Not to mention the amount of adjustable effects can be tweaked by switching out components in the crossover. I like hot tweeters so with these DIY speakers, I can switch out the resistor with ease and instant greater top end.

Anyways, to each his own and that's why there are different products out there.

Im a college student as well. A couple years ago I decided to take charge of my hearing. I am now very responsible with the volume knob. Not that you aren't, I just can appreciate the music better when its not blaring.

My FF85ks have a lot of sparkle, better than any other full range driver I have every listened to. I would compare them to BG Neo3s in many regards. Due to their rising response in the last octave, the off axis response does not suffer. Also, the metal dustcap is attached directly to the voice coil, making it a true tweeter.

4 15s > 4 7s //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

Lol.. Well that's 4 7's per side and those only cover the midbass. I did see your open baffle speakers and they look good, but I'd be worried about LFE. My sub-bass comes from a Shiva-X in a 4.6 net volume box tuned to 16 hz on 500w.

I am responsible with my speakers, but I love to crank it sometimes.

 

[Fast1one 10+ year member]

Lol.. Well that's 4 7's per side and those only cover the midbass. I did see your open baffle speakers and they look good, but I'd be worried about LFE. My sub-bass comes from a Shiva-X in a 4.6 net volume box tuned to 16 hz on 500w.
I am responsible with my speakers, but I love to crank it sometimes.

For music the low end is fine. I may add a subwoofer later on for 40hz down, but I am in no rush whatsoever.
Total thread hijack //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

Yeah, I thought of that after we started posting but atleast it wasn't trolling.