Capacitors, their NOT what some people claim..

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

your main mistake is assuming that car audio capacitors are limited to 1 Farad. Also, it is clear that capacitors have their place in the electrical system considering they are a vital part of the topology of an amplifier's power supply. The smoothing effects of capacitors is pretty basic and simply a function of size and time. I have installed 500 Farad banks and seen good success on stock electrical systems with 2kW-4kW sub stages. course, not everyone is willing to spend $300-$500 for a 500F ultracap bank.

while capacitors need to be recharged, doing so in between musical peaks is easy for the electrical system to do.

the automotive industry has moved to ultracapacitor banks in cars with regenerative braking because caps can charge faster and discharge faster than batteries and do it for millions of cycles without fail. batteries are slow, lumbering blocks when compared to capacitors. chemical reactions are slower than electric fields.

capacitors are not as sensitive to temperature as batteries are. whether heat or cold, a capacitor bank will outperform a battery in longevity.

in the end, it's simply a matter of energy over time. your argument would be better spent discussing the amount of Joules a capacitor can discharge given it's size and the potential change.

Maxwell Technologies Ultracapacitors

 

[kapo4238]

so question capacitors are only good if it has a high farad rating, or they are just a waste of money im confused. i just need a solid answer, because if they make em they must be good for something

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

so question capacitors are only good if it has a high farad rating, or they are just a waste of money im confused. i just need a solid answer, because if they make em they must be good for something

doorstops if you buy the ones that cost under 100$

 

[kapo4238]

thanx..... clearified

 

[gstokes]

I don't know that anyone has claimed caps to provide "endless voltage" so if that's the claim you're arguing against, then good.
Other than that, capacitors do charge far more quickly than batteries and they can provide current far more quickly than batteries. While it is true that too small a cap won't do you good, it's also true that too short a ladder won't get you to the height you desire. But... that doesn't mean that ladders are completely useless and that they can never provide anyone with enough height to get them where they need to be.

Watch:

[video=eURfjZAVKFY]

I know it's a controversial topic and i didn't mean to step on any toes, if someone hadn't mentioned a stiffening cap as part of "their" big 3 upgrade i probably never would have brought it up to begin with, but here's another definitive explanation of not only why they don't work as intended but why they are actually harmful to the system and should be avoided, we may have a difference of opinion on the subject but that's why we come to a forum to discuss it, old habits die hard and stiffening caps have been highly touted for years by some and laughed at by others like myself, cheers..

http://fatfist.hubpages.com/hub/Car-Audio-CAPACITORS-Why-They-DONT-Work

 

[gstokes]

your main mistake is assuming that car audio capacitors are limited to 1 Farad. Also, it is clear that capacitors have their place in the electrical system considering they are a vital part of the topology of an amplifier's power supply. The smoothing effects of capacitors is pretty basic and simply a function of size and time. I have installed 500 Farad banks and seen good success on stock electrical systems with 2kW-4kW sub stages. course, not everyone is willing to spend $300-$500 for a 500F ultracap bank.
while capacitors need to be recharged, doing so in between musical peaks is easy for the electrical system to do.

the automotive industry has moved to ultracapacitor banks in cars with regenerative braking because caps can charge faster and discharge faster than batteries and do it for millions of cycles without fail. batteries are slow, lumbering blocks when compared to capacitors. chemical reactions are slower than electric fields.

capacitors are not as sensitive to temperature as batteries are. whether heat or cold, a capacitor bank will outperform a battery in longevity.

in the end, it's simply a matter of energy over time. your argument would be better spent discussing the amount of Joules a capacitor can discharge given it's size and the potential change.

Maxwell Technologies Ultracapacitors

I don't assume all caps are 1 farad, i just used a 1 farad cap as an example.

The Maxwell ultracapacitor is a game changer but it's not a capacitor in the traditional sense, it's an electro-chemical device that mimics the characteristics of a high-value capacitor.

The 16V maxwell ultracap has a lifespan of less than half a million charge/discharge cycles, that's fine for regen braking and some other applications but in the life of the average car audio buff that would be about 1 day of listening to music and the cap would begin to fail so i don't think maxwell ultracaps would be a good choice for a car audio application.

 

[gckless 5,000+ posts]

I don't assume all caps are 1 farad, i just used a 1 farad cap as an example. The Maxwell ultracapacitor is a game changer but it's not a capacitor in the traditional sense, it's an electro-chemical device that mimics the characteristics of a high-value capacitor.

The 16V maxwell ultracap has a lifespan of less than half a million charge/discharge cycles, that's fine for regen braking and some other applications but in the life of the average car audio buff that would be about 1 day of listening to music and the cap would begin to fail so i don't think maxwell ultracaps would be a good choice for a car audio application.

Explain to me how people have had them in their car for months and they still function the same as the day they put them in then.

 

[bbeljefe]

I know it's a controversial topic and i didn't mean to step on any toes, if someone hadn't mentioned a stiffening cap as part of "their" big 3 upgrade i probably never would have brought it up to begin with, but here's another definitive explanation of not only why they don't work as intended but why they are actually harmful to the system and should be avoided, we may have a difference of opinion on the subject but that's why we come to a forum to discuss it, old habits die hard and stiffening caps have been highly touted for years by some and laughed at by others like myself, cheers..Car Audio CAPACITORS: Why They DON'T Work

There's no controversy to me and you're not stepping on any toes. You're perfectly free to post whatever you like (as far as I'm concerned) but when you do it without providing evidence, expect to be challenged. And to clarify, you sent me a link to an article that doesn't even list any empirical test data.

I don't know about you but I'm not interested in reading people's opinions when it comes to science. If you'll notice, the videos I linked to are demonstrations with actual measurements, not speculative opinion pieces. And with a modicum of due diligence, one could also find videos demonstrating capacitors that don't work. The trouble with those pieces and the article you linked is that they condemn all capacitors as useless and that simply is not true.

There are actually a good many people nowadays who have no batteries or only one battery and a bank of capacitors as their backup power and most of those people are in the lanes winning. And most of those caps have been in use for a good deal of time.

In the end, it's accurate to make the claim that small electrolytic capacitors with cheap volt meters on top don't usually help and possibly even make things worse. But you didn't say that, nor did the articles you linked.

 

[gstokes]

I don't know that anyone has claimed caps to provide "endless voltage" so if that's the claim you're arguing against, then good.
Other than that, capacitors do charge far more quickly than batteries and they can provide current far more quickly than batteries. While it is true that too small a cap won't do you good, it's also true that too short a ladder won't get you to the height you desire. But... that doesn't mean that ladders are completely useless and that they can never provide anyone with enough height to get them where they need to be.

Watch:

[video=eURfjZAVKFY]

I can't deny the test results, you made a believer out of me..

I guess theory doesn't always prove the truth..

 

[big scott]

i have a 1ferad cap on my sub amp,, 6x9 amp and a 12 sub amp. i tryed my system without it. lights dimmed bad... and voltage droped to 11 volts. this is with a 200 amp alt,, all 1/0 big 4 done.

i have had this cap for about 8 years. my system before was only about 1,000 rms. now its 2,500 rms.

now do plan on getting 2 audio batterys and pulling my cap. but right now nobody can tell me they dont work. are they the best i dont think so but when your limmited on money you find what works for cheep. just this past 2-3 months i have started to get bigger/ good grade stuff.

im just saying what i have notice. o if your wandering what my voltage is with cap... 14 volts. it drops to that from 14.4 volts. so not bad. o and my light dont dim nearly as bad. only when im CRANKING ON THE BASS and i have other things on like my electric fan witch ***** power.

 

[gstokes]

Explain to me how people have had them in their car for months and they still function the same as the day they put them in then.

I'm sorry but even the miraculous maxwell supercap will lose a percentage of their capacitive value over time, it would be correct to say it is still functioning but not the same as the time of installation.

Perhaps Maxwell could explain to you how their 16V small cell module that's only rated for 1500 hours is somehow exceeding that figure, either you are wrong or Maxwell is wrong but i'm betting maxwell knows their product inside and out http://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors/docs/datasheet_16v_small_cell_module.pdf

Edit: A 1500 hour lifespan with 8 hours a day average listening time gives the cap just over 6 months to live, you may be right saying these systems have been in use for months, maybe 6 months at the most..

 

[gckless 5,000+ posts]

I'm sorry but even the miraculous maxwell supercap will lose a percentage of their capacitive value over time, it would be correct to say it is still functioning but not the same as the time of installation.Perhaps Maxwell could explain to you how their 16V small cell module that's only rated for 1500 hours is somehow exceeding that figure, either you are wrong or Maxwell is wrong but i'm betting maxwell knows their product inside and out http://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors/docs/datasheet_16v_small_cell_module.pdf

Edit: A 1500 hour lifespan with 8 hours a day average listening time gives the cap just over 6 months to live, you may be right saying these systems have been in use for months, maybe 6 months at the most..

Well that's a bit different than the one day figure you threw out before isn't it.

 

[whitedragon551 5,000+ posts]

i have a 1ferad cap on my sub amp,, 6x9 amp and a 12 sub amp. i tryed my system without it. lights dimmed bad... and voltage droped to 11 volts. this is with a 200 amp alt,, all 1/0 big 4 done.
i have had this cap for about 8 years. my system before was only about 1,000 rms. now its 2,500 rms.

now do plan on getting 2 audio batterys and pulling my cap. but right now nobody can tell me they dont work. are they the best i dont think so but when your limmited on money you find what works for cheep. just this past 2-3 months i have started to get bigger/ good grade stuff.

im just saying what i have notice. o if your wandering what my voltage is with cap... 14 volts. it drops to that from 14.4 volts. so not bad. o and my light dont dim nearly as bad. only when im CRANKING ON THE BASS and i have other things on like my electric fan witch ***** power.

This is the equivalent of using Peel and seal roofing for deadening. Sure it works (sort of) temporarily, but its a huge mistake and waste of time/money in the long run.

 

[csu87 10+ year member]

I'm sorry but even the miraculous maxwell supercap will lose a percentage of their capacitive value over time, it would be correct to say it is still functioning but not the same as the time of installation.Perhaps Maxwell could explain to you how their 16V small cell module that's only rated for 1500 hours is somehow exceeding that figure, either you are wrong or Maxwell is wrong but i'm betting maxwell knows their product inside and out http://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors/docs/datasheet_16v_small_cell_module.pdf

Edit: A 1500 hour lifespan with 8 hours a day average listening time gives the cap just over 6 months to live, you may be right saying these systems have been in use for months, maybe 6 months at the most..

I don't know many people who go around with it turned up 8hrs a day either.

 

[BoomTaco64]

its all in the application in which it is being used. the same goes for many other parts of car audio. just like tuning with a dmm or not. its ones opinion. i would buy a small extra battery rather than a cap but it depends on what size power you are running.