budget 4 channel vs higher end, is there a sound difference?

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

In my opinion yes.


My previous experiences in the past were all cheap class D 4 channels, mainly ppi, soundstream, and extremely entry level low end JL audio class Ds. My current amp is a ppi p900.4 and been running it for awhile.
Just did a test last week till this week. I got a class a/b JL audio G6600 which does 75 watts RMS x 6 at 4 ohms.

here's a comparison pic.



Directly swapped them out and dialed the gains in along with same crossover point settings I had on the ppi. At first There was a noticeable SQ difference. At the time I thought it was not that big at all given the MSRP price difference. I noticed the trebles became a lot more smooth and sparkly/airy. Instrument separation and sound stage was better/wider/more present, mids sounded smoother, you notice more subtle nuances in the music.

However it could not keep up with my substage at full blast like my ppi which had a lot more to give output wise, still not bad for only 75 watts though. Still, I gave it a good long listen and it got better and better as I played countless songs of every genre.

Today, I put back in the PPI since I wanted to bump my bass up full blast again and now I seriously noticed the SQ difference, the PPI sounds soo sh*tty compared to the JL, sounds really empty in comparison, got louder though but definitely not as good sounding. A comparison would be like a big meat head body builder(ppi) vs a skilled and well built mma fighter(jl).

This was just a direct swap, my ears miss the JL amp already. Needless to say, I'll be saving up for a higher powered SQ oriented class a/b 4 channel since I feel thats the current weakest link of the system.

This is not to say the ppi sounds like sh*t, Its still a da*m good amp for the money you get out of it. The sound is clean and with a very well recorded track, it can sound great too. I feel its more suited for average joes and SPL guys that need to get loud and clean. I could never max out the amp since my ears tap out way before I could get it to the loudest point.

@The Camry @audiobaun

Click to read more...

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

You guys can chime in on your experiences too. This write up is done after proper time alignment, proper baffle/seal/sound deadening/door acoustical treatments, speaker positioning, crossover point tuning. Install is already as optimal as can be, only thing done will be a direct amp swap.

I believe all the above along with proper signal processing and well made drivers make a bigger difference than an expensive 4 channel amp, that should still be the last thing to focus on if you are on a budget.

 

[Maky]

Today, I put back in the PPI since I wanted to bump my bass up full blast again and now I seriously noticed the SQ difference, the PPI sounds soo sh*tty compared to the JL, sounds really empty in comparison, got louder though but definitely not as good sounding. A comparison would be like a big meat head body builder(ppi) vs a skilled and well built mma fighter(jl).
This was just a direct swap, my ears miss the JL amp already. Needless to say, I'll be saving up for a higher powered SQ oriented class a/b 4 channel since I feel thats the current weakest link of the system.

Looks like you're in the same boat as me : )

I'm hunting for a deal on a Mosconi AS 200.4. Well anything that does atleast 150x4 and is of 'audiophile' grade.

Let us know what you end up eventually replacing the PPI with.....

 

[fly_marlin]

[quote name='Maky']Looks like you're in the same boat as me : )
I'm hunting for a deal on a Mosconi AS 200.4. Well anything that does atleast 150x4 and is of 'audiophile' grade.

Let us know what you end up eventually replacing the PPI with.....[/QUOTE]

What kind of a deal? Think you can get it new at $850 or so. I'm guessing you're looking for 150x4 into 4 ohms? I will go out on a limb and guarantee that you would not be disappointed with ARC KS series...of course, talking from experience. Here are also cheaper options you may want to look at:

Gladen XL 150c4
Audio System Xion X 165.4
Rainbow Germanium Four
Eton PA 800.4

Kinda wanted to get one of those, but the footprint, performance, and price of the Arc was just too good. I think the cool factor of those things is nice, not too many people run them.
@Jeffdachef lol where the h*ll is the JL going now??

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='fly_marlin']What kind of a deal? Think you can get it new at $850 or so. I'm guessing you're looking for 150x4 into 4 ohms? I will go out on a limb and guarantee that you would not be disappointed with ARC KS series...of course, talking from experience. Here are also cheaper options you may want to look at:

Gladen XL 150c4
Audio System Xion X 165.4
Rainbow Germanium Four
Eton PA 800.4

Kinda wanted to get one of those, but the footprint, performance, and price of the Arc was just too good. I think the cool factor of those things is nice, not too many people run them.
@Jeffdachef lol where the h*ll is the JL going now??[/QUOTE]

I kinda want to toss it in CSCstang's setup and see how it sounds with his pwx and infinities. I'm gonna keep it if I ever get a commuter car, i'll do a pure SQ build with it. Or if anyone would be interested to trade a bigger SQ 4 channel, for what i want, i'd be down too.


Maky's in India, he's kinda limited to what he can get since import fees drive the price up like crazy.

 

[fly_marlin]

I kinda want to toss it in CSCstang's setup and see how it sounds with his pwx and infinities. I'm gonna keep it if I ever get a commuter car, i'll do a pure SQ build with it. Or if anyone would be interested to trade a bigger SQ 4 channel, for what i want, i'd be down too.

****, I wanna play swap the amp game!

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

yeah man you can test it out too, its a gonna be a dirty sl*t of an amp thats for sure haha.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

My class D is close to my old slash 450/4. That's says a lot. But it's not the same. Not bad but different. I'm sure the MS-8 is what's making it shine

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

I went from a PPI-P900.4 to a JL HD 900.5 and they did sound different. The deference that I noticed was in the sound signature of those amps. The HD sounded better to my ears when they were directly swapped out. But IMO the difference was not anything that some EQing couldn't correct, for them to sound the same to me. I went back to the PPI.

That said, i do believe some "good quality amps" sound better than others, i just don't believe 99% of us could tell the difference of these "good quality amps" in a blind side by side test.

In a repeatable blind ABX test when they are adjusted equally with flat output we see our subjective nature takes over. Most of us not pick consistently at all.

We can here the same amp 3 times in a row with the same song, and we will likely pick one, and swear it sounds better...

Interesting video on sound and our mind.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

There is no way you can EQ to get better depth of soundstage and instrument seperation. The difference is indeed enough for one to chose the better amp over the other in a blind sound test. However, its not extremely huge enough to warrant 2 to 3 times the price of a p900.4

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

There is no way you can EQ to get better depth of soundstage and instrument seperation. The difference is indeed enough for one to chose the better amp over the other in a blind sound test. However, its not extremely huge enough to warrant 2 to 3 times the price of a p900.4

Yes you can.

 

[big scott]

I went from a PPI-P900.4 to a JL HD 900.5 and they did sound different. The deference that I noticed was in the sound signature of those amps. The HD sounded better to my ears when they were directly swapped out. But IMO the difference was not anything that some EQing couldn't correct, for them to sound the same to me. I went back to the PPI.
That said, i do believe some "good quality amps" sound better than others, i just don't believe 99% of us could tell the difference of these "good quality amps" in a blind side by side test.

In a repeatable blind ABX test when they are adjusted equally with flat output we see our subjective nature takes over. Most of us not pick consistently at all.

We can here the same amp 3 times in a row with the same song, and we will likely pick one, and swear it sounds better...

Interesting video on sound and our mind.

i just watched that, i could tell he was saying fa instead of ba.

there trying to say if you close your eyes you hear ba .. nope i here fa.

does anybody else ?

 

[big scott]

so it sounds like if you have a processor you can make a buget brand amp sound just as good as " a good brand " ???

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Yes you can.

thats mainly time alignment. There was things the tweets just would not do before the swap no matter the amount of EQ that was done. i've literally tried every curve you can think of. They either get harsh or have no response at all with the class D. You can have it on flat or the same EQ setting still achieve better tweeter sound from the class A/B

so it sounds like if you have a processor you can make a buget brand amp sound just as good as " a good brand " ???

basically.

 

[seedlings]

Where you'll hear the biggest difference is when pushed hard near clipping, when poorly designed amps will have lots of crossover distortion. Well under clipping it's much harder to distinguish good and bad sound, unless there is an EQ or phase difference.

Many of the home stereo hifi guys use 20W tube amps. I wonder if car-fi will ever be saturated with tubes. (I build tube amps for guitar in mybspare time.)

CHAD