Best single subsetup for SPL

[Polecat 5,000+ posts]

I leave for a week and see what happens //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Spkrman]

ok, i just read all of this, and i've got a few things to say...
1) james is 23rd in the WORLD, not the u.s. and getting louder everyday.

2)statement retarcted on account of audiolife...lmao...

3)cone area does matter. regardless of what u try to say, cone area makes a difference. i get ur point of choking off a trunk, and that makes sense. and in ur testing, ur theory is probably more then accurate. but for a daily driving setup, where the lows are really wanted (and the lower it plays, the louder it seems) cone area just can't be denied. also, with ur style of box,TBC or something, correct?, maybe that's the biggest difference. i mean, when ur charging $250 for one, it must be somethign special.

Saying that choking a trunk is OK is like saying box doesn't matter.

In a trunk... the trunk is a BIG part of the box... if you choke it off, its like cutting down the port area.... this being in an "enclosure" that likes alot of port //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Style of box? TBC? Huh? My boxes are just well built, properly sized for both the woof and the CAR boxes.

4)crx or stay outa street? james doesn't use a crx. nor, for the most part, does any team sweep member. james's explorer defeated several big name crx's last year. adn the name of the game in an explorer? cone area. of course, this is suv vs trunk, so different rules will apply.

Saying one person beat another in a different car... ? Means nothing. My trunk beat alot of CRX's too, means nothing.

CRX per drag rules is the car... unless you can get a panda.

I wonder what the TOP competitors are using? hmmm...?

oh, how do i know this? i work with james on almost a daily basis. i part time at the shop he full times at. i actually built a few of his boxes. and by finals, u'll see james and the rest of sweep throwing up alot better numbers...and a 151+ legal, with just one battery, car off. that isn't too shabby, now is it?

thats fine... still 4db off the top score //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif. Long way to go to have a shot.

 

[Abel 10+ year member]

Saying that choking a trunk is OK is like saying box doesn't matter.
In a trunk... the trunk is a BIG part of the box... if you choke it off, its like cutting down the port area.... this being in an "enclosure" that likes alot of port //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Style of box? TBC? Huh? My boxes are just well built, properly sized for both the woof and the CAR boxes.

Saying one person beat another in a different car... ? Means nothing. My trunk beat alot of CRX's too, means nothing.

CRX per drag rules is the car... unless you can get a panda.

I wonder what the TOP competitors are using? hmmm...?

thats fine... still 4db off the top score //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif. Long way to go to have a shot.

Can we say PWND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

Saying that choking a trunk is OK is like saying box doesn't matter.
In a trunk... the trunk is a BIG part of the box... if you choke it off, its like cutting down the port area.... this being in an "enclosure" that likes alot of port //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Style of box? TBC? Huh? My boxes are just well built, properly sized for both the woof and the CAR boxes.

Saying one person beat another in a different car... ? Means nothing. My trunk beat alot of CRX's too, means nothing.

CRX per drag rules is the car... unless you can get a panda.

I wonder what the TOP competitors are using? hmmm...?

thats fine... still 4db off the top score //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif. Long way to go to have a shot.

well at last look...other then panda's..most are using explorers...

adn if u think that james is still just hitting last years number, think again. all he is doing is getting points for finals...he could care less about the shows in between, except to get points. and if u think otherwise, think again.

and if he wins, great, if he doesn't, he doesn't.

as to the trunk issue, i wasn't totally disagreeing with u. reread the post. in ur testing, u could very well be right. one twelve in the right box louder then two twelves in a trunk. ok..but u won't hit as low. u'll hit low, i'm sure...but you and i both know that spl tuning is different then street tuning. and tuned to 44 hz isn't low. (not saying that's where ur tuned to, just using that as an example). and to the ears, by perception, low notes are louder. on a mic? nope, they aren't. and most ppl aren't chasing tenths on a meter, they are trying to shake the body off the frame. and one twelve tuned to 44 hz isn't going to accomplish that like a pair of 15's sealed (or ported if they'll fit) or a pair of 12's tuned to 32-34...

as to ur boxes...i'm sure u do build them well. but i was approached by someone the other night wanting one built from up ur way and he stated u qouted him $250 and called it the TBC or something....that's where that came from. whether or not ur just building a typical bass reflex box or what, i don't really care. i was just amazed at the price tag...

and u need to read more of my posts....i always state the enclosure is 85% of the install...but that's neither here nor there..

the point is this...what works in competition isn't always (or hardly ever) what works for the street. and vice versa. to say that ur boxes, ur theory is the end all for trunk cars is wrong. maybe for ur application, sure. but every application is different and so is the end result. saying ur boxes, ur theory is the only right one is like saying that the type r is the end all to subs. that's just not the case.

and abel...before saying anyone got pwned, wait to see if there is a response...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[Mr. Opportunist 10+ year member]

Can we say PWND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think we can say that about your rio when you get the mt back //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

 

[Spkrman]

well at last look...other then panda's..most are using explorers...
adn if u think that james is still just hitting last years number, think again. all he is doing is getting points for finals...he could care less about the shows in between, except to get points. and if u think otherwise, think again.

and if he wins, great, if he doesn't, he doesn't.

It was posted as if he was a competition guru... although its a great score, its not gonna take finals. Nothing personal against the guy... just was noting that a 151 isn't gonna do anything in street A. We'll see at finals, I'll be there. Best of luck //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

as to the trunk issue, i wasn't totally disagreeing with u. reread the post. in ur testing, u could very well be right. one twelve in the right box louder then two twelves in a trunk. ok..but u won't hit as low. u'll hit low, i'm sure...but you and i both know that spl tuning is different then street tuning. and tuned to 44 hz isn't low. (not saying that's where ur tuned to, just using that as an example). and to the ears, by perception, low notes are louder. on a mic? nope, they aren't. and most ppl aren't chasing tenths on a meter, they are trying to shake the body off the frame. and one twelve tuned to 44 hz isn't going to accomplish that like a pair of 15's sealed (or ported if they'll fit) or a pair of 12's tuned to 32-34...

I've definitely gotten one 12 as loud as 2 12's.... both at a low note. I'm not talking about a 44hz tune either... I'm talking about a low 40's, high 30's *peak*. The only reason your gonna be louder with 2 12's is because they handle the power much better, or they are being given more power. Other than that, one 12 will do just fine so long as you build properly. I've been there and done that much already.

as to ur boxes...i'm sure u do build them well. but i was approached by someone the other night wanting one built from up ur way and he stated u qouted him $250 and called it the TBC or something....that's where that came from. whether or not ur just building a typical bass reflex box or what, i don't really care. i was just amazed at the price tag...

TCAB... lmao, thecaraudiobox... TCAB.

Its a ported box, but its not anything typical in design or execution... the boxes are priced properly for what is put into them. As far as a daily driver goes, I'll put them up against any other box. I build them to be loud while sounding good... which is part of why one 12 is louder in most trunks.

Typically when you choke the trunk... you drop the note way down, and normally drop the SPL way down (there are ways to do it properly, but its still not going to work as well as a more open trunk). This leads to a loss of punch in nearly every case... and thats part of SQ. The box can be built to cover the entire range with most woofs.

and u need to read more of my posts....i always state the enclosure is 85% of the install...but that's neither here nor there..

the point is this...what works in competition isn't always (or hardly ever) what works for the street. and vice versa. to say that ur boxes, ur theory is the end all for trunk cars is wrong. maybe for ur application, sure. but every application is different and so is the end result. saying ur boxes, ur theory is the only right one is like saying that the type r is the end all to subs. that's just not the case.

This isn't just my application... I've tested and built many boxes in many cars and its always the same story. So long as you build per the specific application. There is no book on that, there isn't really any sort of "rule of thumb" either... experience is the best teacher =)

That being said... type R is the best bang for the buck... period.

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

It was posted as if he was a competition guru... although its a great score, its not gonna take finals. Nothing personal against the guy... just was noting that a 151 isn't gonna do anything in street A. We'll see at finals, I'll be there. Best of luck //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

in all honesty, about 350 miles south of you, team sweep is a competition guru. that includes james herren, kevin koller and greg mccool. are they teh ultimate competitors? no, not by a long shot. but locally, they are hard to beat. AND, this is the most important, in the case of james, until he gets defeated at finals, he is the man in street A. and i agree, as does he, 151 isn't going to snag him a top 5, maybe not a top 10..but it took finals last year.

as to the trunk issue, i wasn't totally disagreeing with u. reread the post. in ur testing, u could very well be right. one twelve in the right box louder then two twelves in a trunk. ok..but u won't hit as low. u'll hit low, i'm sure...but you and i both know that spl tuning is different then street tuning. and tuned to 44 hz isn't low. (not saying that's where ur tuned to, just using that as an example). and to the ears, by perception, low notes are louder. on a mic? nope, they aren't. and most ppl aren't chasing tenths on a meter, they are trying to shake the body off the frame. and one twelve tuned to 44 hz isn't going to accomplish that like a pair of 15's sealed (or ported if they'll fit) or a pair of 12's tuned to 32-34...

I've definitely gotten one 12 as loud as 2 12's.... both at a low note. I'm not talking about a 44hz tune either... I'm talking about a low 40's, high 30's *peak*. The only reason your gonna be louder with 2 12's is because they handle the power much better, or they are being given more power. Other than that, one 12 will do just fine so long as you build properly. I've been there and done that much already.

ok, we are getting somewhere. i agree with everything in the above statement, no arguement. but one twelve still won't reach as low as a pair. and that's what most street beaters are after, hence the tuning in the 28hz region. while you disagree about cone area, the truth of the matter is, the more cone area a person has, the lower they will go. and typically, they'll be louder then a comparable install. though as mentioned above. the loudness isn't written in stone.

TCAB... lmao, thecaraudiobox... TCAB.

Its a ported box, but its not anything typical in design or execution... the boxes are priced properly for what is put into them. As far as a daily driver goes, I'll put them up against any other box. I build them to be loud while sounding good... which is part of why one 12 is louder in most trunks.

ok, that clears that up. thank you. whilest IMO $250 is high for a standard bass reflex enclosure, i did mention to the guy that if this wasn't a typical enclosure, ala ABC, TL, and horn type, then the $250 could very well be justified. i can't comment any further then that as i've never seen nor heard any of ur enclosures.

Typically when you choke the trunk... you drop the note way down, and normally drop the SPL way down (there are ways to do it properly, but its still not going to work as well as a more open trunk). This leads to a loss of punch in nearly every case... and thats part of SQ. The box can be built to cover the entire range with most woofs.

This isn't just my application... I've tested and built many boxes in many cars and its always the same story. So long as you build per the specific application. There is no book on that, there isn't really any sort of "rule of thumb" either... experience is the best teacher =)

That being said... type R is the best bang for the buck... period.

again, i'm not disagreeing about "choking" off a trunk. i actually see the logic in what you are saying. my disagreement is listed above.

the section i made bold, that is the most truth that came come outa this thing. specific application, that's where most people in this forum get lost. what works well for you, won't necessarly work well for me. i might be after a different sound, might not care for spl and/or just be in a totally different vehicle. 95% of the people here do not take everything into account when they build/have their system built.

type r best bang for the buck sub? in your opinion. and there's nothing wrong with that. i've not messed with the 05's, but just got rid of two 03's or 04's , i can't remember (i got them off a friend who is now spending 8 years in a state sponsored facility and sold them for him) anyway, while they got loud, they didn't get low and they were very muddy.(yeas, i know enclosure plays a big role, however, his enclosure was built by the large audio shop they alpines were bought at) which is why i didn't keep them. i think my solo x sounds better and is more responsive then the type r's i had. but again, that's my opinion, and that isn't the new ones. but if i was to vote for best bang for the buck, it would be memphis pr's....i can get them authorized for about $85 for a twelve (off ebay, about $55-65), can get them very loud off very lil power and they'll sound decent doing it. will they beat a type r? dunno, i've never ran them h2h(and honestly don't think they will)...but it's my opinion. oh yeah, i'll get a 4 year warranty with them and memphis doesn't hardly care why u blew them..lol..

anyway, sorry for the ramble, i'd like to get my hands on a 05 type r and give it a whirl. they seem to be an excellent sub by your account. but i'll stand my statement that there isn't such a thing as a end all, be all of subwoofers. there are just way too many varibles for that one subwoofer to exist. some subs might get close, but IMO, in the world of car audio, there can't be only one.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

i think where they get popular is the fact that for a good 370-500 bucks you can get a sub/box that can pull a 150ish type score on 1000-2000 watts of power. granted it may be in a different org and my only pull 147ish type scores in db drag but in alot of the vehicles that is a better score at about 1/2 the cost. if spkrman can get it tweeked to run a 150 or better in db drag imo he wouldnt have anything more to prove (i already kno he is doing it and very competitive in another org for me that is enough) but doing it in both orgs expands on what people want. a few of the cars i know of around here spent 2-3 times as much at least just "hitting a 147-150" figure in 2 grand for amps 500-800 per woofer and probably 400-500 hundred for the box.

 

[tRiGgEr 5,000+ posts]

Low end extension > all...

 

[nissanrider06 10+ year member]

so a lower tuned box hits lower notes??? which seems louder but a higher tuned box is louder??? thats kind of confusing, why wouldnt most people that arnt competing tune there box lower for SPL if it seems louder?

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

i think where they get popular is the fact that for a good 370-500 bucks you can get a sub/box that can pull a 150ish type score on 1000-2000 watts of power. granted it may be in a different org and my only pull 147ish type scores in db drag but in alot of the vehicles that is a better score at about 1/2 the cost. if spkrman can get it tweeked to run a 150 or better in db drag imo he wouldnt have anything more to prove (i already kno he is doing it and very competitive in another org for me that is enough) but doing it in both orgs expands on what people want. a few of the cars i know of around here spent 2-3 times as much at least just "hitting a 147-150" figure in 2 grand for amps 500-800 per woofer and probably 400-500 hundred for the box.

and again, i'll agree to that...BUT, his results might very well be different then someone elses. if the type r is the only sub to get, then ALL competitors in ALL organizations would run them.

they are working great in his application, sweet. he's knocking down good scores with them compared to other subs, even better. but to preach that they are the only sub to have, and to do it here where bandwagoning is beyond rampant, isn't the truth. like i mentioned above, way too many varibles for that one simple fact to be true. there is no end all subwoofer.

btw, our local alpine dealer has the 05's ON SALE for $200 a piece for 12's. he said the msrp is more around $300. so unless u can find an online authorized dealer, they really aren't what i'd consider budget subs. true, u can get them cheaper online. and i guess that's where the advantage comes in...lol..u can buy two for the price of one and have a spare when the n0obs around here think they can throw 2kwrms at them daily and they start popping like ballons. in spkrman's case, he's got enough knowledge to do that, but the n0obs clinging to his every last word more then likely do not.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

so a lower tuned box hits lower notes??? which seems louder but a higher tuned box is louder??? thats kind of confusing, why wouldnt most people that arnt competing tune there box lower for SPL if it seems louder?

yep, a lower tuned box does indded play lower notes....chalk that one up to duhhhh...lol //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

yep, a higher tuned box, in most cases, will indeed play louder, but not seem as loud to the ear.

and most spl competitors don't tune low because it's hard to get a good score with a low note...typical burps are done around 50-55hz for street type competitors...some extreme vehicles burp around 70-79...it's vehicle adn box dependent of course...but it's also why most organizations have 80hz as the cap as to what u can burp.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

sealed box will go lower.

low tuned ported box will play those lows louder.

 

[skeptikal Premium Member]

yep, a higher tuned box, in most cases, will indeed play louder, but not seem as loud to the ear.

on the higher end of the scale of course.

 

[Spkrman]

ok, that clears that up. thank you. whilest IMO $250 is high for a standard bass reflex enclosure, i did mention to the guy that if this wasn't a typical enclosure, ala ABC, TL, and horn type, then the $250 could very well be justified. i can't comment any further then that as i've never seen nor heard any of ur enclosures.

THe boxes aren't "standard". Watch the vids on the site, they are a different design than what you normally see in a ported box, and they work a hell of alot better than the "typical" ported box. SQ AND SPL are both improved by design.

Excuse me for not needing some oddball alignment to work well.

Would it sound better to you if it were the magic "TCB" box with 40 feet of port that gets exponentially bigger then halves in size until it comes out at the exact square of the area of the sub? Would you then be satisfied that its just flat out louder and cleaner than nearly any other box out there, period?

and most spl competitors don't tune low because it's hard to get a good score with a low note...typical burps are done around 50-55hz for street type competitors...some extreme vehicles burp around 70-79...it's vehicle adn box dependent of course...but it's also why most organizations have 80hz as the cap as to what u can burp.

The future = meter at the headrest.... IMO nothing else really matters.

Unless you roll around with your head under the dash, or on the windshield //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

And in that event, you won't see many 50hz+ notes doing great numbers.