best budget battery?

[scottiej 10+ year member]

Scottie u kept saying you knew everything about them and then you back out
Audiolife>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>scottie

What are you wanting to know specifically? I didnt feel the need to continue to go in circles with Audiolife when it was clearly going nowhere. As I said before... all the details will be available soon enough on the website. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[savagebee 10+ year member]

Depends on how long term the system is... I would suspect the D3100 would outlast the Everstart by double... or more. Not to mention the weight you would save by not needing as many batteries. That combined with the other AGM advantages like being more vibration resistant and sealed/maintanence free.

okay, thanks

 

[savagebee 10+ year member]

so what are the major differences between batteris?

as in (just for camparison sake) how does the big everstart marine maxx compare to a kinetik 2400?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

if the everstart is a wet cell i wouldn't even go there...they are messy, give off toxic fumes and require maintenance

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

So you're saying an Amp Hour rating over a 20hr period is more usefull than quick discharge ratings over 5 seconds? I find it hard to beleive that a battery that can provide 5 amps for 20 hours is better for my system than a battery that can provide 1700A for 5 seconds.

Yanno they did actually show some tests at a higher rate than a 20 AH rate. I thought you would have read. 30 minute rate the spv44 went 31.6 minutes at 55 amps while the hc1400 went 38.7 minutes at the same 55 amp rate. HMMMMM For some reason they didnt post the full data sheet for the spv70 to show its 30 minute rate , but the 1800 went 29.7 minutes @ 87.5 amps and the 2400 went 41.6 minutes at 87.5 amps. 55 amps and 87.5 amps is alot more than 5 amps.

I dont think you understand Amp Hour Capacity. A 100Ah battery does not mean that it can provide 100A for 1 hour, it means that it can provide 5 amps for 20hours. Ah ratings are given in C/10 or C/20 rates (10 or 20 hour discharges) In your post you are claiming how the Stinger was given a lesser load than the Kinetik... that is because it has a lower Amp Hour Capacity.

This true to a certain extent... typicaly a 100Ah battery (tested at the 20hr rate) will provide 5A for 20hours, but might only do something like 98A for one hour, or 175A for 30min. The more current you draw the less accurate the equations stays... this is why you will typically see a rate quoted along with an Ah rating (ex. 100Ah C/20 means tested for 20hrs.)

HUH? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Just becase a battery has a higher Ah rating means nothing to me in car audio, unless you plan to draw low amounts of current (20A or less) over a very long period of time. People use Ah as a reference to judge the capacity of one battery vs another... has nothing to do with high current (100A+) dishcharges unless an internal resistance is given with it.

While I'll agree that 2000A is unrealistic for the average consumer, I still fail to see how you can get anything from this independant testing other than the Stinger is the better choice given the two options? Looking for an educated explanation //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

I'll use your own statement from another site.

"Unfortunately, everybody is all over the place with specifications. Amp hours really dont tell you much for SPL as it is a very low current 20hr test. CCA and CA dont help much either because they are 30 second tests at 0 and 32 degrees. Short Circuit tests are to 0 volts and measured in as little as 1 tenth of a second... not much help there either. For SPL, the number to have would be, how much current can the battery produce for 2 seconds at around 10v... unfortunately, there is no standard for this test, so you will never see it used by manufacturers. Another thing to consider is that some amps will continue to make power at a lower voltage than others, so you could have a scenario where one battery beats the other at 10v, but gets beat at 9v."

Isn't this the type of test they ran in the stinger test? BCI cranking amp test is a 30 second test that lets the battery run down to 7.2 V (1.2v per cell). Not only would it NOT TELL YOU MUCH in spl but wouldnt you say the same thing about car audio in general since the VAST majority of that test your voltage would probably be well under what you could run your amp at? or in other words the amp would shut down or become a fire hazzard. So a test for starting cars from the 70's that doesn't even take into consideration car audio means what to car audio?

 

Also if AH were not important why would you have an AH rating on your batteries?

If the BCI standard specs are important why arent the specs listed with the batteries on your site? Why would you care about "30% more reserve capacity of a D5100 vs OEM battery" or "more storage for longer runtime of a D975"

? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

The trick is finding the one that will perform well, and not crap out in the first year //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

matrxx dude: Our battery is rated at 2250 PHCA. That is the current it will do at 80 degrees F for 5 seconds... the Kinetik just says 2600 "amps" you wont see any time or temp tied to that number I'm sure. Our D3100 is capable of well over 5,000A instantaneous power...

hmm 2250 amps for 5 seconds useable to an audio system? 5000 amps instantaneous? 3200 max amps? wouldnt 5000 be the maximum? hell i have seen 1700 amps and 2100 amps floating around here somewhere I guess you are right specs are all over the place even on the same battery:laugh:

Is that a pot shot on a battery with a one year warranty?

"There is no such thing as a battery that can do 5000A and maintain a voltage high enough to keep an amp on that is 800sq. inches or less... Not DD, not CS, not Batcap, not Powermaster, nobody could even come close to provide 5000A and maintain 10+ volts.... not even for 1 second."

HMMM nothing can do 5000 amps including powermaster? Then why do you care about 30 second CCA or CA tests that run down to 1.2 volts per cell? 7.2 volts for a 12v battery and 9.6 volts for a 16v? At what time frame do these tests give for actual car audio useable numbers to actually support a car audio amplifier? Just sounds like to me you had a chance to bust a competitor's chops to suit YOUR purpose yet at a different point of time think totally differently, sound smart or honest about it somewhere else unattached to this test. I mean it's not like you are biased or have anything to gain right? I mean pretty much what your site shows specs wise is MAX AMPS and AH. Wanting to copy someone else's look and marketing or what?

 

Are these "independant tests" paid for by anybody? Where do the testers get the product to test? Does the company wishing to have "independant testing" done supply it or purchase it? Is there any way to make sure that the supplied product isn't tampered with? I mean it isn't like a company wouldn't have anything to gain by doing this right? What do non-audio related tests have to do with an audio related product? Even you have said it is flawed.... If I just looked at the CCA, CA and PHCA of the Powermaster D3100 you could mistake it for a Stinger or Odyssey 2150 couldn't you? Is one any better then? Is there a difference between the Stinger 800, Odyssey 925 and Powermaster 925's besides stickers and color of cases and the case top? Just asking because they have the same MAX amp and similar AH ratings

 

[BLACKonBLACK98 10+ year member]

wow... good thing you came back after 2 months for an ot reply or i would not have read this thread...

just messin with you, but you guys are arguing top o' the line competition grade stuff in a budget thread...

 

[scottiej 10+ year member]

Wow... I'm amazed you took the time after 2 months to dig this back up and spend what would seem like hours to put together a post with intent to ruin my credibility. There is so much here (mostly misinformation) that I dont even know where to start, but I'll do my best //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Yanno they did actually show some tests at a higher rate than a 20 AH rate. I thought you would have read. 30 minute rate the spv44 went 31.6 minutes at 55 amps while the hc1400 went 38.7 minutes at the same 55 amp rate. HMMMMM For some reason they didnt post the full data sheet for the spv70 to show its 30 minute rate , but the 1800 went 29.7 minutes @ 87.5 amps and the 2400 went 41.6 minutes at 87.5 amps. 55 amps and 87.5 amps is alot more than 5 amps.

My comparison was 20hrs vs. 5 seconds... 30min is still a long way away from 5 sec. How long do bass notes last? 30min? No, music is dynamic... bass notes are intermittent and pull large amounts of current quickly from your charging system (typically much more than 55A). This was my explanation why your argument that Ah capacity is what determines the best battery was invalid, not that Ah is useless. Ah is usefull to compare the capacity of one battery vs. another and we use Ah just for this reason.

I'll use your own statement from another site.  

"Unfortunately, everybody is all over the place with specifications. Amp hours really dont tell you much for SPL as it is a very low current 20hr test. CCA and CA dont help much either because they are 30 second tests at 0 and 32 degrees. Short Circuit tests are to 0 volts and measured in as little as 1 tenth of a second... not much help there either. For SPL, the number to have would be, how much current can the battery produce for 2 seconds at around 10v... unfortunately, there is no standard for this test, so you will never see it used by manufacturers. Another thing to consider is that some amps will continue to make power at a lower voltage than others, so you could have a scenario where one battery beats the other at 10v, but gets beat at 9v."

 

Isn't this the type of test they ran in the stinger test? BCI cranking amp test is a 30 second test that lets the battery run down to 7.2 V (1.2v per cell). Not only would it NOT TELL YOU MUCH in spl but wouldnt you say the same thing about car audio in general since the VAST majority of that test your voltage would probably be well under what you could run your amp at? or in other words the amp would shut down or become a fire hazzard. So a test for starting cars from the 70's that doesn't even take into consideration car audio means what to car audio?

First of all thanks for pulling random statements from a completely different forum into this topic about "budget batteries" to once again try to wreck my credibility. But to answer your question, you are right... a 30 second, 32 degree test is not the best test to use to determine the best SPL Battery, which was the topic being discussed in the thread you took that quote from. For general car audio use however, a direct CA comparison between two similar batteries can give a good indication of which battery is more powerful.

Also if AH were not important why would you have an AH rating on your batteries?If the BCI standard specs are important why arent the specs listed with the batteries on your site? Why would you care about "30% more reserve capacity of a D5100 vs OEM battery" or "more storage for longer runtime of a D975"

? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

As I already mentioned above that Ah is important in determining capacity, but not for choosing the most powerful for SPL or high demand systems... again, taking my comments from unrelated threads and spinning them into a slam may fool a few people, but I hope the majority of readers can see through this. As also mentioned above, BCI specs can be useful, but are somewhat outdated for today's modern vehicles. One thing we will not stand for is a company publishing specs based on BCI standards that are grossly overated, as it seems was Stingers intent behind their publishing of "the truth" document.

As far as the quotes you have taken above from our literature, I would think you could answer your own question, but the answer should be obvious. Why wouldnt a customer buy a D5100 that has more capacity than the OEM, or a D975 that has more runtime vs a 925 if that is what they are looking for?

hmm 2250 amps for 5 seconds useable to an audio system? 5000 amps instantaneous? 3200 max amps? wouldnt 5000 be the maximum? hell i have seen 1700 amps and 2100 amps floating around here somewhere I guess you are right specs are all over the place even on the same battery:laugh: Is that a pot shot on a battery with a one year warranty?

Not sure what this is in reference to? And I dont understand what you mean with the pot shot comment either???

"There is no such thing as a battery that can do 5000A and maintain a voltage high enough to keep an amp on that is 800sq. inches or less... Not DD, not CS, not Batcap, not Powermaster, nobody could even come close to provide 5000A and maintain 10+ volts.... not even for 1 second." 

HMMM nothing can do 5000 amps including powermaster? Then why do you care about 30 second CCA or CA tests that run down to 1.2 volts per cell? 7.2 volts for a 12v battery and 9.6 volts for a 16v? At what time frame do these tests give for actual car audio useable numbers to actually support a car audio amplifier? Just sounds like to me you had a chance to bust a competitor's chops to suit YOUR purpose yet at a different point of time think totally differently, sound smart or honest about it somewhere else unattached to this test. I mean it's not like you are biased or have anything to gain right? I mean pretty much what your site shows specs wise is MAX AMPS and AH. Wanting to copy someone else's look and marketing or what?

ok, now you have pulled comments from a totally different topic related to Lithium batteries in an entirely different discussion??? My comments from above apply to all the questions you are asking here too... the same as they have every other time I've explained them. I had no intentions of "busting anyone's chops" just clearing up misinformation as I always do. I certainly had absolutely nothing to gain in that thread as the discussion was about a product we do not even offer at this time. Which also makes it completely irrelevent for this discussion.

Are these "independant tests" paid for by anybody? Where do the testers get the product to test? Does the company wishing to have "independant testing" done supply it or purchase it? Is there any way to make sure that the supplied product isn't tampered with? I mean it isn't like a company wouldn't have anything to gain by doing this right? What do non-audio related tests have to do with an audio related product? Even you have said it is flawed.... If I just looked at the CCA, CA and PHCA of the Powermaster D3100 you could mistake it for a Stinger or Odyssey 2150 couldn't you? Is one any better then? Is there a difference between the Stinger 800, Odyssey 925 and Powermaster 925's besides stickers and color of cases and the case top? Just asking because they have the same MAX amp and similar AH ratings

Any company wishing to have testing performed can do so at their own expense... anyone can provide their own product, or product from another company. There are many ways to ensure the product is only handled by the test lab and can be easliy proven. Again, you are taking comments from a topic about SPL (burps) and applying them to all scenarios... I have not stated that non-audio related tests are flawed, there are indicators of good and bad batteries in almost any test. In reference to the D3100, I would expect the performance to be similar to that of the PC2150... most users who have made the swap have seen substantial differences in the output of their systems. (ie Steve Mead's voltage held .8v higher after he made the change and noticed a very audible difference). Regarding the 925, yes there are differences besides the colors. Production techniques vary between manufacturers, we use different alloys and materials than Odyssey, but are still able to be competitive in price and performance.

If there are any other questions regarding our batteries, I would be happy to help. It would be very helpful to the readers of the forum if you could keep within the topic of this thread as pulling random quotes from other unrelated topics can make it confusing or leave a bad impression for those who may just be skimming through.

Thanks!

 

[Ali1 10+ year member]

just finished reading thru this, and what have we come to?