Beat_Dominator
5,000+ posts
Yea, thats Mecha Godzilla
I trust Gallo more than you. Maybe 8 of HIS mids are enough. I'll believe you when you test a design of your own using the exact same drivers.
Beat_Dominator
joetama
5,000+ posts
The British Ear
Har har har... True that player.....
You still have the pre-amp for sale???//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
Beat_Dominator
5,000+ posts
Yea, thats Mecha Godzilla
old sq guys look goofy.
joetama
5,000+ posts
The British Ear
Do I at least get a link to it?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/blackeye.gif.66a1670f5aaf7f406e783a63e3387dc5.gif
- Thread Starter
- #22
You can't defy the laws of science. You might as well give your soul to Bose. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
- Thread Starter
- #23
I think the Bose drivers are fine, it's that the *whole* design is crippled. Give me
Bose mids and let me choose tweeters and then we have a new system with
much better SQ. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Beat_Dominator
5,000+ posts
Yea, thats Mecha Godzilla
Tell me what laws of science you are referring to.
Everything I have read about line arrays goes against that design. Maybe he did it because it looks better and he knows some dipshit will spend a buttload of money on it.
joetama
5,000+ posts
The British Ear
Yea.... Good question....
But, some dipshit will spend a butt load of money on it...
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif
- Thread Starter
- #28
To understand the issue better. You need to know what is a line source vs.
line array.
A line source is a tall and narrow radiating surface, ie you have a 7"
contiguous planar, ribbon, etc driver, could be a midrange driver or tweeter,
even woofer, lol.
A line array is a group of radiating elements in a straight line and it's not
contiguous.
By definition, a line source speaker is different than a line array speaker.
You can have line source performance from a line array design - by stacking
drivers close together to create the illusion of one radiating surface. By using
the comb filtering formula, you can develop a line array to mimic a line source.
You can also cheat a little bit on the design.
Problem is;
The Gallo speaker claims -> The "LS" in the 5LS's model designation stands for "line source"
Obviously it's not a line source. It's a line array as you have a group of radiating
elements; the seperate midranges and tweeters.
Furthermore, for it to be a good line array design, by spacing the tweeter
elements far apart is very counterproductive to making a proper line array.
The midrange can be spaced further apart depending on the drivers and crossover frequency. You can also cheat the midranges but not the tweeters.
You said you trust Gallo more than you trust me but science tells you
that the Gallo design is a bad design and there is nothing they can do
to compensate for everything that is in error in the design.
If you were to audition this design and it sounds good, that is ok --- really ---
You can say "Hey, I heard this Gallo speaker XYZ and it sounded good".
But it would be wrong to say "Hey, I know what a line source speaker sounds like
because I heard the Gallo XYZ speaker". **No you did not. You didn't listen to a line
source speaker, but you did listen to a poor implementation of a line array *
.. lol ...
It is also wrong to say "Hey, I don't like line array speakers because the Gallo XYZ speaker
I auditioned sounded poor".. * Yes, you did listen to a line array speaker, but it's poorly
designed and maybe that's why it sucked... next time listen to a better design *.
.. lol ...
line array.
A line source is a tall and narrow radiating surface, ie you have a 7"
contiguous planar, ribbon, etc driver, could be a midrange driver or tweeter,
even woofer, lol.
A line array is a group of radiating elements in a straight line and it's not
contiguous.
By definition, a line source speaker is different than a line array speaker.
You can have line source performance from a line array design - by stacking
drivers close together to create the illusion of one radiating surface. By using
the comb filtering formula, you can develop a line array to mimic a line source.
You can also cheat a little bit on the design.
Problem is;
The Gallo speaker claims -> The "LS" in the 5LS's model designation stands for "line source"
Obviously it's not a line source. It's a line array as you have a group of radiating
elements; the seperate midranges and tweeters.
Furthermore, for it to be a good line array design, by spacing the tweeter
elements far apart is very counterproductive to making a proper line array.
The midrange can be spaced further apart depending on the drivers and crossover frequency. You can also cheat the midranges but not the tweeters.
You said you trust Gallo more than you trust me but science tells you
that the Gallo design is a bad design and there is nothing they can do
to compensate for everything that is in error in the design.
If you were to audition this design and it sounds good, that is ok --- really ---
You can say "Hey, I heard this Gallo speaker XYZ and it sounded good".
But it would be wrong to say "Hey, I know what a line source speaker sounds like
because I heard the Gallo XYZ speaker". **No you did not. You didn't listen to a line
source speaker, but you did listen to a poor implementation of a line array *
.. lol ...
It is also wrong to say "Hey, I don't like line array speakers because the Gallo XYZ speaker
I auditioned sounded poor".. * Yes, you did listen to a line array speaker, but it's poorly
designed and maybe that's why it sucked... next time listen to a better design *.
.. lol ...
- Thread Starter
- #29
Jim bashes the line arrays that I posted in this thread supporting my claims...
hee hee harr harr........
http://audioroundtable.com/ArraySpeakers/messages/1333.html
The Alltronics focused array is what I call a double dumb speaker. First, the designer must be crazy to spend money to develop such a limited design and secondly, the purchaser must be crazy to pay over $20K for a system with those shortcomings.
If you visit the http://www.atssounds.com website that describes these speakers they state:
"The “sweet spot” is approximately one foot wide, three feet deep, and only 3 inches tall. Persons outside the spot will experience a very pleasant, full sound, comparable in quality to many fine speaker systems. But the person inside the listening area will experience a sonic experience which is breathtaking in its presence, clarity, depth, and accuracy."
That is truly a single chair ride in anybody's book. If you slump or sit up in your chair, you lose the magic experience.
Just how many of these focused arrays do they really plan to sell anyway? How many fools in the universe?
Jim
http://audioroundtable.com/ArraySpeakers/messages/1332.html
Gallo's speakers focus on their looks vs. any pretext of sound engineering so keep that in mind when you see such a design. Unless Gallo is operating in a different universe than we are, they the elements of acoustical physics still apply to his designs versus the rest of us.
The intermixed spacing of woofers and tweeters is still subject to the same combing concerns as more conventional arrays. This is especially the case for the woofers. The center to center spacing between the woofers has to be at least 8 inches apart so figure on what such a spacing will impact combing from the woofers. This combing isn't a good thing by any means. The tweeters are likely ribbons so they will be less apt to exhibit combing effects if the vertical plane radiation overlap is somewhat limited. Short ribbon tweeters do have more vertical plane overlap vs. longer ribbon versions but the overlap tends to diminish as frequency increases which reduces combing as I explain in my white paper.
While Gallo claims no crossover, the low pass filter on the woofers is part of a crossover per se. In reality he is using the acoustical roll off characteristics of these drivers and the low pass filter on the woofers to effect a crossover. Line arrays with low order crossovers tend to have more issues with interferences and combing so I would not suggest that this design concept is worth of emulation.
Jim
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/beatdeadhorse5.gif.5d70132dea1eb89b73bf2fdbb6027dd6.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/handclap.gif.0c301076f534e244f0460706894f19e0.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/woot.gif.aaa6090e619a97b6090d16dd863c5a69.gif
hee hee harr harr........
http://audioroundtable.com/ArraySpeakers/messages/1333.html
The Alltronics focused array is what I call a double dumb speaker. First, the designer must be crazy to spend money to develop such a limited design and secondly, the purchaser must be crazy to pay over $20K for a system with those shortcomings.
If you visit the http://www.atssounds.com website that describes these speakers they state:
"The “sweet spot” is approximately one foot wide, three feet deep, and only 3 inches tall. Persons outside the spot will experience a very pleasant, full sound, comparable in quality to many fine speaker systems. But the person inside the listening area will experience a sonic experience which is breathtaking in its presence, clarity, depth, and accuracy."
That is truly a single chair ride in anybody's book. If you slump or sit up in your chair, you lose the magic experience.
Just how many of these focused arrays do they really plan to sell anyway? How many fools in the universe?
Jim
http://audioroundtable.com/ArraySpeakers/messages/1332.html
Gallo's speakers focus on their looks vs. any pretext of sound engineering so keep that in mind when you see such a design. Unless Gallo is operating in a different universe than we are, they the elements of acoustical physics still apply to his designs versus the rest of us.
The intermixed spacing of woofers and tweeters is still subject to the same combing concerns as more conventional arrays. This is especially the case for the woofers. The center to center spacing between the woofers has to be at least 8 inches apart so figure on what such a spacing will impact combing from the woofers. This combing isn't a good thing by any means. The tweeters are likely ribbons so they will be less apt to exhibit combing effects if the vertical plane radiation overlap is somewhat limited. Short ribbon tweeters do have more vertical plane overlap vs. longer ribbon versions but the overlap tends to diminish as frequency increases which reduces combing as I explain in my white paper.
While Gallo claims no crossover, the low pass filter on the woofers is part of a crossover per se. In reality he is using the acoustical roll off characteristics of these drivers and the low pass filter on the woofers to effect a crossover. Line arrays with low order crossovers tend to have more issues with interferences and combing so I would not suggest that this design concept is worth of emulation.
Jim
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/beatdeadhorse5.gif.5d70132dea1eb89b73bf2fdbb6027dd6.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/handclap.gif.0c301076f534e244f0460706894f19e0.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/woot.gif.aaa6090e619a97b6090d16dd863c5a69.gif
Beat_Dominator
5,000+ posts
Yea, thats Mecha Godzilla
I still see no scientific proof that it is a "bad" design. Unconventional, poor performance, whatever..... I just don't like unsubstantiated claims.
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