Audio newbie from Southern California

5 band eq, no time alignment, no active capabilities and its refurbished. Tell me why its better than the 2700bs with 13 band EQ, time alignment active capable and brand new

he might want a 4 channel to power what he has in the back instead of 2. Seems he's dead set on the rears.
I'd hardly say dead set on anything, I'm questioning it because I don't understand how it works, trying to learn here and logically what you're saying doesn't make sense, but I know I have a poor grasp of car audio and staging is a concept that I'm lost on. This is why I'm here, to pick your brains.

those pioneer units don't sound good. I honestly didn't notice that it was referb. but there really isn't anything wrong with referb..just because the pioneer has more features doesn't mean its better. last highend pioneer deck i had got BLOWN OUT THE WATER by a 3 year old X991. they just sound bad(top line one with the dolphins lol). unless your getting the higher end units with the brownbur DACs they sound bad. a friend swaped the pioneer 2800 for a JVC and the JVC sounded better. the JVC was actually decent i was surprised. hey hated the layout of the pioneer.

the thing you don't see is in pioneer specs is they failed to tell the whole truth.. for example their preamp outputs are listed at 5 volts but they don't tell you what the output impedance is equally as important. on the kenwood is pretty low measured below 500ohm.

this was the JVC my boy replaed his pioneer unit with..

KW-V420BT | Multimedia | JVC Mobile USA

its a very decent h/u for the money its good to see JVC make a comeback..

and after hearing that PPI ill never touch them again until they change companies..

plus the image dynamics sound GREAT. they blow the highend JL and alpine offering out the water..

another good sounding comp set is the new kenwood set. i was surprised. pretty much rivaled the CDT CL pro with the upgraded tweeters and xover! a 300$ set.

i was in a hurry and honestly wasn't paying attention earlier. thanks for correcting me money..

http://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-DDX372BT-Double-Bluetooth-Receiver/dp/B00PV45GXQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459319556&sr=8-1&keywords=ddx373. i compared the new kenwood DDx970s to the pioneer avic-7200 and ill take the kewood hands down if i wanted transparency. not to mention it was cheaper.. iknow nes nav and the other isn't but you can use your phones nav so what ever.. when the 9903s comes out I'm getting it. the DAV is a 32 bit instead of the 24..

BTW this was done at a shop with a phil collons and pink Floyd tracks at the typical studio quality sampling rate. the amp was a wetsounds **** if i know the model number it was over a grand and the new power poly kevlars. which BTW sound fcuking amazing..
Personally refurbished electronics are a no go for me, I've had bad luck with just about every refurbished electronic device I've purchased down to the Microsoft Surface that I picked up a few months back to watch IT videos on during my lunch break. They usually work great for a month or two and then something integral fails and I have to buy a new one.

I looked at that Kenwood one before and it looks like a good option, but I really want the mirror link so I can see my phone's gps app on my screen, control my music, etc without ever having to look at my phone.

 
So basically I'm down to I need a decent head unit, some decent front components, and some 6x9 woofers I the back, new question, which would I be better off with, 6x9 or 6.5 woofers in the rear? I'm still curious as to the whole 6x9 vs 6.5 debate, what's the difference (aside from dimensions obviously), why, etc.

Are there any semi decent component sets for the front in the sub $200 range? I'm not so much trying to be cheap for the sake of being cheap as much as I just don't want to hear it from the wife when I spend a car payment on speakers.

Any thoughts on the DS18 line of amplifiers by the way?

 
I'd hardly say dead set on anything, I'm questioning it because I don't understand how it works, trying to learn here and logically what you're saying doesn't make sense, but I know I have a poor grasp of car audio and staging is a concept that I'm lost on. This is why I'm here, to pick your brains.
logically saying, do you go to a concert and when the band and music comes on, do you turn around having your back towards the band? Same concept. A very good rock concert has good sounding music that reaches everywhere. not just the front people. A poor music setup will have it reach everywhere but sound like sh*t.

 
So basically I'm down to I need a decent head unit, some decent front components, and some 6x9 woofers I the back, new question, which would I be better off with, 6x9 or 6.5 woofers in the rear? I'm still curious as to the whole 6x9 vs 6.5 debate, what's the difference (aside from dimensions obviously), why, etc.
Are there any semi decent component sets for the front in the sub $200 range? I'm not so much trying to be cheap for the sake of being cheap as much as I just don't want to hear it from the wife when I spend a car payment on speakers.

Any thoughts on the DS18 line of amplifiers by the way?
rears dont matter, dont bother spending money on them. You pool all your money into your front speakers and they arent so expensive anymore when you dont have to waste dollars on rears. Just have your stocks on head unit power or 4 channel power and thats ALLL you need. DS18 are new, I would wait till they are more proven in the lanes before giving them a chance.

Still sounds like nothing we say will get through to you unless you demo a proper vehicle setup. Hit up local sound quality and spl completions before buying anything. Or if you want to make a trip to lake forest, we can have a demo party.

 
those pioneer units don't sound good. I honestly didn't notice that it was referb. but there really isn't anything wrong with referb..just because the pioneer has more features doesn't mean its better. last highend pioneer deck i had got BLOWN OUT THE WATER by a 3 year old X991. they just sound bad(top line one with the dolphins lol). unless your getting the higher end units with the brownbur DACs they sound bad. a friend swaped the pioneer 2800 for a JVC and the JVC sounded better. the JVC was actually decent i was surprised. hey hated the layout of the pioneer.

the thing you don't see is in pioneer specs is they failed to tell the whole truth.. for example their preamp outputs are listed at 5 volts but they don't tell you what the output impedance is equally as important. on the kenwood is pretty low measured below 500ohm.

this was the JVC my boy replaed his pioneer unit with..

KW-V420BT | Multimedia | JVC Mobile USA

its a very decent h/u for the money its good to see JVC make a comeback..

and after hearing that PPI ill never touch them again until they change companies..

plus the image dynamics sound GREAT. they blow the highend JL and alpine offering out the water..

another good sounding comp set is the new kenwood set. i was surprised. pretty much rivaled the CDT CL pro with the upgraded tweeters and xover! a 300$ set.

i was in a hurry and honestly wasn't paying attention earlier. thanks for correcting me money..

http://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-DDX372BT-Double-Bluetooth-Receiver/dp/B00PV45GXQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459319556&sr=8-1&keywords=ddx373. i compared the new kenwood DDx970s to the pioneer avic-7200 and ill take the kewood hands down if i wanted transparency. not to mention it was cheaper.. iknow nes nav and the other isn't but you can use your phones nav so what ever.. when the 9903s comes out I'm getting it. the DAV is a 32 bit instead of the 24..

BTW this was done at a shop with a phil collons and pink Floyd tracks at the typical studio quality sampling rate. the amp was a wetsounds **** if i know the model number it was over a grand and the new power poly kevlars. which BTW sound fcuking amazing..
If its a 32 bit dac then i'd go for it as well then. Most of my buddies that swapped their alpine and kenwood for the 2700bs noticed big improvements due crossover, time alignement and EQ capabilties.

Never said anything bad about ID, i'd run the comps if I had an SQ car. However those exact PPI components has won SQ championships with that exact ppi amp so they arent that much of a slouch. However it will take a lot more tuning with that amp vs a nice class a/b amp.

 
logically saying, do you go to a concert and when the band and music comes on, do you turn around having your back towards the band? Same concept. A very good rock concert has good sounding music that reaches everywhere. not just the front people. A poor music setup will have it reach everywhere but sound like sh*t.
Well I never looked at it that way, I see people and seats in the way blocking the front from the back, I never even thought about the fact that there aren't any speakers behind the crowd.

rears dont matter, dont bother spending money on them. You pool all your money into your front speakers and they arent so expensive anymore when you dont have to waste dollars on rears. Just have your stocks on head unit power or 4 channel power and thats ALLL you need. DS18 are new, I would wait till they are more proven in the lanes before giving them a chance.

Still sounds like nothing we say will get through to you unless you demo a proper vehicle setup. Hit up local sound quality and spl completions before buying anything. Or if you want to make a trip to lake forest, we can have a demo party.

Not sure where the attitude is coming from, but I appreciate your input...head unit and front components, add in amps later. Got it.

 
Well I never looked at it that way, I see people and seats in the way blocking the front from the back, I never even thought about the fact that there aren't any speakers behind the crowd.



Not sure where the attitude is coming from, but I appreciate your input...head unit and front components, add in amps later. Got it.
the amp and speakers I linked are really nice gear.. the amps are a few years old and just hang around. they are overlooked as junk because they basically selling them for what they paid. their competitive with the mid-end lines today. similar to the high-end Rockford fosgates in build quality.

as for as a Good sounding unit with all those features they just gonna run more than 300 bucks.. I cant stress enough how important a god source unit is.. the New kenwoods units are nice for the money and I personally like them the best. very open and transparent for the money.

http://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-eXcelon-DDX593-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B0189TQVOW unless you spend 600 this is as good as it gets..

 
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the amp and speakers I liked are really nice gear.. the amps are a few years old and just hang around. they are overlooked as junk because they basically selling them for what they paid. their competitive with the mid-end lines today. similar to the high-end Rockford fosgates in build quality. as for as a Good sounding unit with all those features they just gonna run more than 300 bucks.. I cant stress enough how important a god source unit is.. the New kenwoods units are nice for the money and I personally like them the best. very open and transparent for the money.

http://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-eXcelon-DDX593-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B0189TQVOW unless you spend 600 this is as good as it gets..
Maybe it's Amazon, but looking at the 1 5 star against the 4 1 star ratings makes me hesitant. I did come across a nice application specific dash mount for my phone so I'm a little less hung up on the Mirrorlink issue (partly because I just spend 45 minutes reading through reviews bitching about it not working consistently or worse at all for several people), though I'd still like to have a viable GPS screen to look at aside from my phone without a Nav unit, but I guess I'll have to let that go until they work all of the bugs out of Mirrorlink and turn it into something with functional reliability.

So cutting the list down to sound quality, double din, Bluetooth capability...what are the options sub $300 that aren't junk or reman?

Side question I noticed several units that allowed you to use your phone's network connection via usb tether to access apps and such, is this viable, or a gimmick that's less than reliable?

 
if you head down to lake forest, you can play with my buddie's pioneer 2700bs head unit and see hows it work functionality wise and how his system sounds on it. Just a thought.
I might take you up on that if I ever get a free second away from the family, I really like the look of the 2700BS and the 2600BT as well as well as the pretty strong reviews.

 
Alright dumb question #984 , dB ratings on speakers give you an idea of sensitivity and (unless I'm wrong) potential sound quality, is there a rating like dB that applies to amps to use to compare amps?

 
Alright dumb question #984 , dB ratings on speakers give you an idea of sensitivity and (unless I'm wrong) potential sound quality, is there a rating like dB that applies to amps to use to compare amps?
only true for trusted brands of speakers. Anything under 150 could easily be inflated bloated numbers to trick noobs. Best way to see if the speaker is good is through #1 trying out for yourself. # 2 check the build quality, voice coil size = power handling, silk tweeters are usually good vs mylar(plastic and cheap metal domes). # reviews from people who know what they are doing. Most reviews from little teenagers/college kids that just barely got their first system should be taken with a grain of salt. #3 is brand quality and whats been proven in SQ competition lanes.

If you got a high end audio shop around your area, pretty sure they have some head units you can test out. High end = them carrying helix, audison, hertz, morel, image dynamics and their shop has a reputation for high end SQ.

 
only true for trusted brands of speakers. Anything under 150 could easily be inflated bloated numbers to trick noobs. Best way to see if the speaker is good is through #1 trying out for yourself. # 2 check the build quality, voice coil size = power handling, silk tweeters are usually good vs mylar(plastic and cheap metal domes). # reviews from people who know what they are doing. Most reviews from little teenagers/college kids that just barely got their first system should be taken with a grain of salt. #3 is brand quality and whats been proven in SQ competition lanes.
If you got a high end audio shop around your area, pretty sure they have some head units you can test out. High end = them carrying helix, audison, hertz, morel, image dynamics and their shop has a reputation for high end SQ.
That's part of my problem, most of the brands I see guys on this site discussing are brands I've never heard of, names that didn't exist when I was looking at stereo equipment 20 years ago, etc...I mean somebody mentioned Audiofrog to me and looked them up expecting some cheapy throw away swap meet grade speakers. Same with Image Dynamics, Morel, etc...

 
That's part of my problem, most of the brands I see guys on this site discussing are brands I've never heard of, names that didn't exist when I was looking at stereo equipment 20 years ago, etc...I mean somebody mentioned Audiofrog to me and looked them up expecting some cheapy throw away swap meet grade speakers. Same with Image Dynamics, Morel, etc...
yeah times have changed. the brands you avoid are

American Pro, Audiovox, Boss, Dual, Jensen, Kole,Legacy, MA Audio, Pheonix Digital, Planet Audio, Power Acoustik, Profile, Pyle, Pyramid, performance technique, west coast customs, JVC, soundstream (lower end lines and a few others, some are okay) Rockwood, rockville, Seicane, Sound Storm(or SSL), Sparkomatic, SPL Audio, Thump, Ultimate Sounds, Urban Audio, US Amps- the newer stuff, Visonik, Volfenhag Alphasonik, Autotek, Audiobahn, Audiopipe (everything except some specific amplifiers), Blaupunkt, Crunch, Hifonics(speakers and subwoofers and non brutus amplifiers) Kenwood (speakers subs and amplifiers)

Lanzar(non opti lines), Lightning Audio, Pioneer (amplifiers, subwoofers and speakers) Rockford Fosgate (lower series products) SAS Bazooka (all products), Sony Xplod, Vibe, hitron, kicker (speakers and lower end subs)

That should be most of the junk gone. Some of the name brands are there because like pioneer, they only do head units well. Only speakers of theirs that dont **** is the stage 4 which are $500+. Kicker and rockford has overpriced junk at their bottom tier but the amps are okay and their subs are barely mediocre but overpriced.

 
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