ANOTHER Sub Shootout/Design Question Regarding Sundown/Dayton/SSA (SQ Build)

[neo_styles 10+ year member]

Yeah, identified that as the one quib with the Dayton. Figured if I got the DVC 12 I could at least wire it down to 2 ohms (or get 2 and wire down to 1) which would be perfect for that Sundown amp. The more I think on it, though, the more I kind of want to play with the PDX-V9 considering I could practically hide that amp anywhere whereas the Leviathan would be a giant elephant in the trunk.

 

[J31Rob 5,000+ posts]

ICON is good in sealed at 1.25cubes, prolly offers a bit more in slightly larger ported enclosure, tho.DCON is even better and can go as low as 0.9 (1.2cubes prime) sealed

Dayton RSS315HO-4 can go even smaller, and I think is recommended as low as 0.75....and have even heard some folks running in less than that, but not sending the full WRMS to it.

SA is a solid speaker, but just not generally "in the running" for someone desiring SQ.

If I could stand to go with 1.2-1.25, I would prolly choose the DCON. If space was a big consideration, I'd go with the Dayton HO..... both are good choices.

BTW, what made you narrow your choices down to just these 3 ?

How is an SA8v2 "not in the running" for someone desiring SQ? That's rubbish and you know it. Anything in a good enviroment is going to react the way you want it to.

 

[Flex68 10+ year member]

SA offers a good sub, just as I stated.....but well-known for being an SQ driver?

You are definitely correct that the environment (damping/deadening and proper enclosure) has more to do with it than the driver, itself.

Given the choice of a Dayton HO, a DCON, or an SA, I am personally going to put SA at the bottom of those three choices, tho

 

[Chriszle 10+ year member]

According to PWK, the SA-12 models very well as far as SQ is concerned and still gets loud.

 

[FtheNutHuggers]

single SA12D2 bridged on chs 5 & 6

that single sub can go way beyond "purely SQ" and if you give it sufficient dimensions for an engineered enclosure, you'll get superb SQ.

 

[neo_styles 10+ year member]

I assume you mean that SA12 bridged on the leviathan? How would the same SA12 do on the mono channel of the PDX-V9? And again, I keep hearing about proper environment but nobody has yet told me what volume and what type of enclosure.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

I love my Infinity Kappa 120.9w. It delivers good, transparent bass with good SQ and deep lows, with authority when necessary. I think power handling is underrated. I run 450watts to it without sign of it sounding sloppy. I think 500-600watt is probably its real power handling. If the amp has too much power at 2ohm, there is a flip switch on the subwoofer to configure it for 4ohm impedance. If there is no need for conspicuous display of bass, this one delivers more than enough IMO. Perfect qtc in a reasonable sized sealed box. For the price, I can't complain or justify spending more at this point. If you're looking for good SQ, you may also want to check the long Alpine SWR-8 subwoofer thread on DIYMA. These are overbuilt, low inductance subwoofers with good SQ that are quite different from larger Rs. According to the standard recipe, each would use a 0.55 cu ft box or so tuned in mid-30s.

 

[galacticmonkey 5,000+ posts]

I have a Dayton HF 8 that I would sell for cheap. If you are looking for just enough bass to fill in your music it would be just fine. I think a pair of 10s or 12s would be too much.

 

[sam_b03 10+ year member]

According to PWK, the SA-12 models very well as far as SQ is concerned and still gets loud.

From my personal experience, the SA-12 is pretty clean and does get louder. For a real SQ it gets beat handly by an IDQ12v2.

For an SQ set up an Image Dymanics Q sub maybe worth looking into. I realize it isn't OP list. It is a good SQ sub that is close to his budget, isn't very power hungry, and works in small enclosures.

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

According to PWK, the SA-12 models very well as far as SQ is concerned and still gets loud.

That really using saying a lot to be honest.

The SA drivers are nice and can sounds decent it is not much different then a very long list of drivers you can design an enclosure for to help make then "sound good" with. While their performance is good as well, their ability it "sound good" is not anything better then other drivers in the same classificstion.

 

[neo_styles 10+ year member]

Woke up to some good feedback. Thanks, guys.

So the general concencus is 1 (not 2) of whatever sub emerges as the victor. I can live with that. Galactic, thanks for the offer, but I only have enough budgeted right now for the head unit which I ordered last night (got a pretty good deal from Crutchfield on an open box).

Rabbit, based on your experience with builds, what are your recommendations for subs that perform (or at least design) well for small enclosures? I most likely will be coming to you for the box build anyway, so I value your insight.

Zako, are you referring to the 1KW RMS Type Rs? If so, I think I saw a few references to that thread. At the very least these should be easy to demo at a Worst Buy. Same with the Kappa 12.

Any Angelenos paying attention to this thread? I'm looking for decent places to go audition more of the stuff we talk about here. Preferably someone who knows 100% about their equipment and can speak with some authority about it.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

SQ on the PDX-9 500w at 4 or 2 ohms:

1 st choice - WoofersEtc.com - G312-4 - Boston Acoustics 12" 375 Watt Single 4-Ohm Subwoofer

2nd - WoofersEtc.com - SPW-1210 - Nakamichi 12" 1200 Watt Sound Quality Competition Subwoofer

3rd - WoofersEtc.com - E-12D2 - Sundown Audio 12" Dual 2-Ohm E Series Subwoofer E12D2

4th - WoofersEtc.com - 12" Hammer - Rainbow Hammer 12" Subwoofer

5th - Subs

6th - DCON 12 Sound Solutions Audio 12" 300W DCON Series Subwoofer - SSA STORE

I am just showing you that there are many excellent options available aside from those already mentioned on 500w rms. Of course it all comes down to enclosure design and placement above anything else that will determine what sounds better out of all the subs mentioned in this thread....you could pretty much put on a blindfold and throw a dart at whatever fits your budget...I have heard many $100 subs flat out embarrass some $250 subs based strictly on the install.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

From my personal experience, the SA-12 is pretty clean and does get louder. For a real SQ it gets beat handly by an IDQ12v2.
For an SQ set up an Image Dymanics Q sub maybe worth looking into. I realize it isn't OP list. It is a good SQ sub that is close to his budget, isn't very power hungry, and works in small enclosures.

Actually, an Image Dynamics IDMAX would have been a perfect subwoofer with the power handling the OP needs. It is quite expensive though.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

Zako, are you referring to the 1KW RMS Type Rs? If so, I think I saw a few references to that thread. At the very least these should be easy to demo at a Worst Buy. Same with the Kappa 12.

No, the ones I mentioned are SWR-843D/823D. These are from the previous generation Type-R lineup. Alpine didn't update the 8 inch model when it released the 2012 line-up for 10 and 12R, so those 8Rs are effectively "current generation" Type-Rs as far as 8 inch subs are concerned. They are not SPL monsters. Their power handling is 350watt RMS a piece, and you don't want to exceed that. Someone reported that they start to smell funny past that. Nonetheless, two 8Rs in ported inclosure should give you pretty good SPL. Looking at SAZ-1200D's specs, this amp would be perfect for having two DVC 2ohm R8 models wired for final 2ohm load. Running amp at 1ohm can be hard on car's charging system and the amplifier anyways. It seems like this amplifier could also be about right for one Image Dynamics IDQ12v3D4 or Dayton Audio HO12DVC. The Dayton has kind of lowish sensitivity though, while IDQ has more xmax and higher sensitivity, so you can get more SPL out of IDQ and still have good SQ. The IDQ costs almost twice the price of Dayton HOs, but often you can find them on sale for well under $200. Both are fine subs for 1cu ft sealed box, or you can try going with a custom built ported box. People are saying that Sundown SA can be comparable to IDQ in SQ, so I guess it's another subwoofer to consider. On "paper" though, the IDQ seems to have better sensitivity, so you could get a bit more SPL out of it on limited power. I don't know if you can really audit anything at best buy. Their ported boxes are most likely not up to the spec of subwoofer. You can't really audio a sub without hearing the rest of system.

 

[Spooney 10+ year member]

Personally having owned the SA-8 v.2 I would be inclined to say that if you really want SQ that the SA-8 v.2 is not what you are looking for unless you are going to have some very strong midbass. The SA-8 v.2 is an excellent subwoofer no doubt and sounds fairly good but I just felt like in my install the upper bass frequencies were non existent almost(50-70 hz). They are a very bottom heavy sub. I really expected the exact opposite of these drivers. The low lows are amazing for sure but I was hoping for a more balanced sub.