all amps sound the same?

[atoz350 10+ year member]

how could you prove they sound the same, all you could do is just tell him they sound the same //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

How could you prove that they don't?

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Not just the same power, but ones that measure identically in specs - which really, if you think about it, isn't much of a "test" at all.
Not all amplifiers measure the same, even with the power held constant. Part of why I disagree with RC's "contest".

What RC's amplifier challenge is actually testing is what amplifier measurements cause an impact on the sonic characteristics of the amplifier and at what limits difference in these specs can or can not cause sonic differences. Keep in mind that they do not have to measure "identically", but only within certain limits (that most any decent amplifier will measure within). It basically states (and so far has proved) that the power, gain, frequency response and distortion and noise characteristics of the amplifier are the sole causes of "sound differences" in amplifiers, and then specifies at what levels differences in these specs can or can not be heard. And no one has yet to prove him wrong.

There is really nothing to disagree with, or any fallacy in the challenge. Unless you can win the challenge and prove his hypothesis wrong that amplifiers, of any class or quality level, with equal power output (not hard to find), distortion below 2% (any amplifier worth owning should be capable of this) and frequency response matched to within a certain level (which I can't recall off hand, but regardless differences here are nothing a simple equalizer couldn't fix) will be audibly identical.

I personally think the above information is pretty invaluable, and should be for just about anyone.

Isn't it nice to know that, at worst, a simple equalizer could make your $300 amplifier "sound" like a $2,500 Brax?

Hell, he'll even allow your precious light bulb amps into the challenge against a SS amplifier //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif He just adds a resistor to the output of the SS amp to lower it's damping factor and equalizes the response.....imagine getting tube sound from an SS amplifier //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 

[yacob.naif 10+ year member]

it's like trying to describe something that's infinitely variable with a finite number of measurements

the specs don't tell you the whole story

a simple example i can think of is two amps with the same rms power ratings may sound completely different due to the way their power supplies work/the quality of components IN the power supply/ quality of internal electrical connections

endless factors

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

There's not endless factors though, that's the nice thing about physics. There's no mystery to amplifiers. They do exactly what we want them to do based on some fairly simple principles of electron flow. If amps measure the same they will sound the same, that's all RC's challenge is designed to prove. In this case, specs can tell the entire story. Like was already mentioned, there is a very large differnerence in how a SS amp and a tube amp work. However just by adding a resistor at the end we can create teh same end result, which is all that matters. All the differences in parts, all the differences in approachs to amplfication don't matter, just the end product.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

it's like trying to describe something that's infinitely variable with a finite number of measurements
the specs don't tell you the whole story

a simple example i can think of is two amps with the same rms power ratings may sound completely different due to the way their power supplies work/the quality of components IN the power supply/ quality of internal electrical connections

endless factors

Incorrect.

Amplifiers are relatively simple electrical devices that are thoroughly understood in the realm of physics and science, and their complete behavior can be characterised through various measurements. Believe it or not, they are not the mythical beasts with tons of unknowns that people seem to make them out to be. Electrical laws and physics are well defined for amplifiers, and very well understood.

Also, read my above reply.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Incorrect.
Amplifiers are relatively simple electrical devices that are thoroughly understood in the realm of physics and science, and their complete behavior can be characterised through various measurements. Believe it or not, they are not the mythical beasts with tons of unknowns that people seem to make them out to be. Electrical laws and physics are well defined for amplifiers, and very well understood.

Also, read my above reply.

haha, beat you to it..

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Square amps sound better than round ones //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I'm disappointed in you Squeak ... You are hereby banished from the realm of caraudio.com because your ability to reply to posts quickly has obviously diminished to a point where you are no longer necessary here ...

Finally, I'm FREE!!!!!!

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Square amps sound better than round ones //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

Don't be dumb.

Square amps can only produce square waves. Square waves are distortion.

Round amps can produce round waves, or sine waves as they are more well known.

Sine wave > Square wave

Round amps > Square amps

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Don't be dumb.
Square amps can only produce square waves. Square waves are distortion.

Round amps can produce round waves, or sine waves as they are more well known.

Sine wave > Square wave

Round amps > Square amps

I don't under stand your sine language to good. How duz it make a wave if it flat?? Don't flat amps make square waves and wavy amps make regular waves?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

I don't under stand your sine language to good. How duz it make a wave if it flat?? Don't flat amps make square waves and wavy amps make regular waves?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

But then how do kicker subs make sound if the sound is supposed to be a circle and they are squares!?!! I'm confused:crazy:

 

[AJ²06 5,000+ posts]

WHat the hell???

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

But then how do kicker subs make sound if the sound is supposed to be a circle and they are squares!?!! I'm confused:crazy:

That cuz teh Kicker got this amazing technology in there subz that makes all dem square waves turn into circles for the sub to make. You guyz are such noobs around here...geez //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

The only way you can see the this awesome technology is with 3-D glasses //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif