Acoustic Elegance AV15

[John_E_Janowitz 10+ year member]

That's a very nice plateau in that impedance plot. Speaks volumes about the work that went into the motor. What do the two small peaks coincide with?

There are 2 breakups where you see the 2 peaks. Since the cone and dustcap are aluminum they have a sharp breakup which will be fairly tall but quite narrow in band. Obviously for a car application to 80-100Hz they have no factor at all. When used as the bottom end in a large 3way floorstanding speaker it will limit where you can cross to the midrange though to about 500hz or lower. The woofer itself is quite flat to about 900hz where there is a the first slight breakup from the dustcap. Then there is another breakup at 2KHz from the cone itself. Response is +/- 2dB all the way up to where that first breakup is though.

With how flat the upper end is, some people just still don't get how to setup a system. If you have a driver that is flat to 900hz and you are lacking upper bass, you need to learn how to setup a system. Here is the woofer response alone.

augerpro over on AVS is testing some of our other drivers now for other applications as well. The IB15, TD12M, TD15X, TD15M, and a couple others. The TD's are used in high efficiency recording studio monitors, home theater speakers, and live sound PA speakers. We've also had people throw TD10Ms in for a killer midbass in doors before.

"So I have had some time to look at things and I think the 12" roundup is starting to shake out. The TD12M is clearly the best in every facet except sensitivity." The TD12M is only about 94.5dB 1W vs some of the others at 96-97dB although it was designed with other aspects in mind.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1148945

John

 

[John_E_Janowitz 10+ year member]

If you don't mind get John to shoot me information on where he is getting his Ferrite slugs and Baskets as well..as I'm 100% about American made products (raw materials and such). I'd love to not have to ship magnet slugs and baskets over from the orient.
Thanks,

Magnets and frames do currently come from china. We buy magnets from Alliance who distribute them in the US, but there are no US manufacturers. The last magnet manufacturer went out of business in the 80's.

We are prototyping some new frames here in the US though. It is expensive, probably $100 a frame to make. The nice thing is we can do them in small quantity and have ability to adjust sizes as needed. When you look at the cost of tooling a deep cast frame in china you would spend around $20,000. If they do something wrong then your cost will go up even more to redo it. Most all frames still require some machining here in the US for precision. Spider and surround landings are almost never perfectly parallel, nor is the bottom that mounts to the motor. So say you have 500 custom frames. The frame costs $15 by the time it arrives to your door. You add $40 to each frame to amortize the tooling cost. Then you spend 15min to machine the frame so you can use it. The frame isn't exactly cheap anymore.

Our frame will allow us to make it 100% from US made aluminum. It allows us to make different depths from standard parts. We can have spokes custom done with logos cut by waterjet for our OEM customers, a car club that wants their own woofers, etc.

John

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

If you don't mind get John to shoot me information on where he is getting his Ferrite slugs and Baskets as well..as I'm 100% about American made products (raw materials and such). I'd love to not have to ship magnet slugs and baskets over from the orient.
Thanks,

Thanks john for clearing that up, i had just spoke too soon without really reading what i put.

 

[WS2186 10+ year member]

if i read correctly,did someone here say the ae sub blew away an FI Q in the lowest octave? if so,this is my dream sub

I have an Fi Q, and I love it. I swapped it out for the AV in the same box with the same power, and it was INCREDIBLE how much more low end I had, just awesome. The HFE is pretty comparable, but the low end is ridiculously better with the AV.

Dont get me wrong, I really like the Q, soudns great, but the AV sounds better and lower.

 

[Scoobydoo 5,000+ posts]

sigh, now i wanna put my C15.1 in a ported box just to see what it can do

hey john,

what exactly is the difference between my c15.1 and the av15? i know there is a slight difference, but i forgot

 

[Koon 10+ year member]

What size and tune was the box used to hit 146?

 

[Parker G 10+ year member]

So this whole time I've been dicking around with thilo and shoulda tried some of johns subs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

No one saw a little humor in that? But seriously i might have to try one of these AV15's out.

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

sigh, now i wanna put my C15.1 in a ported box just to see what it can do
hey john,

what exactly is the difference between my c15.1 and the av15? i know there is a slight difference, but i forgot

C15 has a 2" coil, the AV has a 2.5" coil, that is the biggest difference.

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

What size and tune was the box used to hit 146?

4.5 cubes, tone was 37hz

 

[loud-n-low 10+ year member]

I have an Fi Q, and I love it. I swapped it out for the AV in the same box with the same power, and it was INCREDIBLE how much more low end I had, just awesome. The HFE is pretty comparable, but the low end is ridiculously better with the AV.
Dont get me wrong, I really like the Q, soudns great, but the AV sounds better and lower.

are we talking about the x or H model?

 

[Koon 10+ year member]

4.5 cubes, tone was 37hz

Did you notice any problems with the suspension? I know someone that had his in 3.5 cubes with about 1500 RMS and he had suspension problems.

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

what do you mean suspension problems?? everything seemed to work fine, never bottomed out or anything like that.

 

[kendogg 10+ year member]

Did you notice any problems with the suspension? I know someone that had his in 3.5 cubes with about 1500 RMS and he had suspension problems.

We all know who that was Koon, it was papermaker (bassfreak).

Tuning at 37Hz though, it would be interesting to see how the sub performs on a meter in an enclosure near what John had originally told me to design/tune mine to (3.5 tuned to 25 Hz). I have a feeling upper end would be lacking much moreso than it is in your higher tuned enclosure.

With a 37Hz tune, how much power was required to hit full xmax, and at what frequency? Since it's tuned so high, excursion is going to be fairly low in that range, hence why it was able to take SO much power, and I have a feeling of why it had so much output at 70 Hz - more excusrion at the higher frequencies.

No offense, but this looks much more like an all-out SPL comparison vs an SQ comparison. This first round of testing doens't seem all that objective IMO, especially for a driver touted as an all-out SQ driver. We all knew it was tough and could take a beating.

Read up on mine & papermakers problems with these drivers. Mine was an X model, and was then reconed into an H after he folded up the cone.

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

We all know who that was Koon, it was papermaker (bassfreak).
Tuning at 37Hz though, it would be interesting to see how the sub performs on a meter in an enclosure near what John had originally told me to design/tune mine to (3.5 tuned to 25 Hz). I have a feeling upper end would be lacking much moreso than it is in your higher tuned enclosure.

With a 37Hz tune, how much power was required to hit full xmax, and at what frequency? Since it's tuned so high, excursion is going to be fairly low in that range, hence why it was able to take SO much power, and I have a feeling of why it had so much output at 70 Hz - more excusrion at the higher frequencies.

No offense, but this looks much more like an all-out SPL comparison vs an SQ comparison. This first round of testing doens't seem all that objective IMO, especially for a driver touted as an all-out SQ driver. We all knew it was tough and could take a beating.

Read up on mine & papermakers problems with these drivers. Mine was an X model, and was then reconed into an H after he folded up the cone.

Well, bumpin is an SPL guy so it makes sense that he was doing SPL testing. However with that testing he would definitely be excercising the durability of all the parts in this driver.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

We all know who that was Koon, it was papermaker (bassfreak).
Tuning at 37Hz though, it would be interesting to see how the sub performs on a meter in an enclosure near what John had originally told me to design/tune mine to (3.5 tuned to 25 Hz). I have a feeling upper end would be lacking much moreso than it is in your higher tuned enclosure.

With a 37Hz tune, how much power was required to hit full xmax, and at what frequency? Since it's tuned so high, excursion is going to be fairly low in that range, hence why it was able to take SO much power, and I have a feeling of why it had so much output at 70 Hz - more excusrion at the higher frequencies.

No offense, but this looks much more like an all-out SPL comparison vs an SQ comparison. This first round of testing doens't seem all that objective IMO, especially for a driver touted as an all-out SQ driver. We all knew it was tough and could take a beating.

Read up on mine & papermakers problems with these drivers. Mine was an X model, and was then reconed into an H after he folded up the cone.

If anything on music, the lower tuning would mimize excursion at the lowest frequencies of the music, where excursion would be the highest. That would lead to more excursion left over for 60hz+. Conversly the peak of a 37hz box does still make a difference at 70hz. When modeled he was gaining about 3dbs at 70hz vs a sealed design. Ported tuned at say 30 gained him 2. If mechanical power handling is the issue on alot of low stuff I'd say they would probably break even. Granted that's theoretical but still it gives a general idea of whats going on. 3.5 at 25 graphs identically down to 80, even at 60hz it's only like a decibel.