40th Birthday present

[Forcefed2002]

You did a good enough job describing the curves that I am able to get a pretty good mental image of those variables.

I've heard you & others speak to positioning & cone loading before, but now having experienced that aspect myself and in such an intense manner, it became very eye opening.

Yes, I am dancing with the devil in respect to the power these drivers can handle and will do my best to not let the smoke out.

I wonder (if I do become unfortunate enough to hurt them) how JL knows if they are subject to warranty replacement based on overpowering?

Is it because there's no other way a sub comes back to them in that kind of condition?

And if so, then what kind of damage do you think they will cover?

(Dumb question alert)

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

You did a good enough job describing the curves that I am able to get a pretty good mental image of those variables.
I've heard you & others speak to positioning & cone loading before, but now having experienced that aspect myself and in such an intense manner, it became very eye opening.

Yes, I am dancing with the devil in respect to the power these drivers can handle and will do my best to not let the smoke out.

I wonder (if I do become unfortunate enough to hurt them) how JL knows if they are subject to warranty replacement based on overpowering?

Is it because there's no other way a sub comes back to them in that kind of condition?

And if so, then what kind of damage do you think they will cover?

(Dumb question alert)

Cool, yeah I'm busy, a couple guys showed up today about doing some work on the property here and I'm trying to get prepared to head out of town for the weekend to check out a show and visit family.

As far as warranty goes, there's a few strategies used by the industry:

First (Sundown/Eminence) you rate everything based on testing at 50hz sine wave for 8 hours. Conservative retard-proof ratings so if someone breaks it you KNOW they have abused it.

Next, snake oil. Mention "clipping" or "break in" and just deny the claim. Audioque used to be famous for the "break in" line being a cop out.... They were notorious for triple joint failures early on, though it's hard to say how many of those actually happened on rated power since their ratings seemed pretty honest. Expect the excuse and deny strategy particularly from companies who use inflated ratings.

Thirdly (what I suspect premium priced companies do) is just market "sound quality" to an audience who largely won't abuse things and price at a point where they just eat a few no questions asked if they come back.

Lastly offering warranty only if product is installed by authorized dealer leaving the ball in the install shop's court.

I'd say JL is probably a combination; they should be hard to break at rated power in their suggested box, they mostly appeal to people who won't be grossly abusive, they deal largely through brick and mortar sales, AND at their price point they can afford to eat a few.

That all said, I suppose the best company only gives you so many freebies before they start to balk when you claim you got another broken sub. Burnt coils are easy to spot as are the signs of over excursion (or of course glue failures or legit manufacturing defect), and manufacturers should know what sort of use/abuse you'd need to be doing to do either.

 

[Forcefed2002]

Sounds legit, rock solid info.

The shop my wife purchased the equipment from told her to tell me to swing by after finishing install & they would sign off on the warranty after they gave it a good once over.

I used to work there 20yrs ago, for 2 yrs as an apprentice/hu gofer.

 

[Forcefed2002]

Ok

hispls

got a couple questions for you. Being aware that this build is one giant compromise, & that the next build will be with drivers & an enclosure more suited for me & each other I ask this of you.

Working off the response graph you posted for me:

A.

What can I do to increase the height of the bump at 40hz-45hz to bring it up more inline with the response at 50hz?

Will shortening the port even further than before induce this effect?

B. The sealed enclosure curve, if i were to build it, could I not just increase power to bring the whole thing up & filter it after 80hz or so? Or does it not work like that?

I ask because although the green line is my best option (due to the size of enclosure the red line needs) the rolloff from 48hz down is steep & super noticeable.

The yellow is down a bunch of db but it's gentler in its decline.

...just spit balling

 

[Forcefed2002]

Also, what would happen if I increase my current 8.1" per cube port area to 11.7.

Would mean increasing port height by 1inch.

And then lengthening it to 18" to get 35hz

 

[Forcefed2002]

Ignore the "B" question.

 

[Forcefed2002]

Ok so I happen to have an extra :

JL 10w3v3-4 svc AND

JL 12W0v3-4 svc

Was considering adding one or the other to my current system. In a seperates enclosure (maybe a small sealed one to add some upper-mid bass).

Intended to run off my JX1000/1d in this configuration.

 

[Forcefed2002]

Would have loved to fire up the other 2 12WO's I have but that amp isn't stable at 1 ohm.

So this is the only other compromise I could come up with.

That being said, which of the 2 aforementioned woofers should I use for the 3rd leg of this setup?

And are there any pitfalls I should be aware of?

As Hispls keeps reminding me, the 12w3's I'm running at the void warranty range so I thought this would be a good way of spreading some of that juice.

To catch yall up, I've added a JL XR Evolution component set (making 2 sets overall) and a pair of JL C3 tweets in the center dash next to the HU.

250 amp alternator on the way.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Would have loved to fire up the other 2 12WO's I have but that amp isn't stable at 1 ohm.So this is the only other compromise I could come up with.

That being said, which of the 2 aforementioned woofers should I use for the 3rd leg of this setup?

And are there any pitfalls I should be aware of?

To catch yall up, I've added a JL XR Evolution component set (making 2 sets overall) and a pair of JL C3 tweets in the center dash next to the HU

It is usually not considered wise to mix and match subs/enclosures, particularly trying to drive them with the same amp, it's a recipe for horrible sound. That said, don't take my word for it, you can knock together a 1 cube sealed box with 20$ worth of materials in a couple hours and try it out for yourself, just be mindful that you'll need to adjust the gain on the amp to the lower impedance..... oh, and those slash series amps work better at 3 ohm than 1.5.

Do you find yourself wanting more? Constantly driving them to their limits? If you can't stuff a third matching sub into your current location sharing a box with the others your best bet would be to sell/trade all of them something that'll handle the power better/deliver more output.

I have enjoyed every build I've seen with JL components though, they're pretty nice.

 

[Forcefed2002]

It is usually not considered wise to mix and match subs/enclosures, particularly trying to drive them with the same amp, it's a recipe for horrible sound. That said, don't take my word for it, you can knock together a 1 cube sealed box with 20$ worth of materials in a couple hours and try it out for yourself, just be mindful that you'll need to adjust the gain on the amp to the lower impedance..... oh, and those slash series amps work better at 3 ohm than 1.5.
Do you find yourself wanting more? Constantly driving them to their limits? If you can't stuff a third matching sub into your current location sharing a box with the others your best bet would be to sell/trade all of them something that'll handle the power better/deliver more output.

I have enjoyed every build I've seen with JL components though, they're pretty nice.

I do see myself wanting more. In part due to the response curve of my setup.

Since I'm still not proficient using modeling software, could you find it in your heart one day (any day), during coffee break, to see if you can manipulate the port in my rig to get it a little more flat just to the left of peak for a half dozen cycles or so, without sacrificing what is currently there?

Maybe you have some tricks of the trade that could be applied. I have no problem increasing Port area if that happens to be part of the equation. I know the right way to do things would be to build from scratch and probably with different woofers but that is not realistic for a while.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I do see myself wanting more. In part due to the response curve of my setup.Since I'm still not proficient using modeling software, could you find it in your heart one day (any day), during coffee break, to see if you can manipulate the port in my rig to get it a little more flat just to the left of peak for a half dozen cycles or so, without sacrificing what is currently there?

Maybe you have some tricks of the trade that could be applied. I have no problem increasing Port area if that happens to be part of the equation. I know the right way to do things would be to build from scratch and probably with different woofers but that is not realistic for a while.

If memory serves the box needed to be much larger to extend your bandwidth lower while keeping things flat. Tuning much lower and you'll wind up with a two humped camel shaped response with a peak around tuning then another peak higher up (wherever your cabin resonates) and a dip in between. From my experience sacrificing low or high is superior to the dip in response right in the middle.

You seem pretty handy with a saw though, so feel free to add a few inches port length back and see if that sounds better to you. You can temp it up with caulking rope or gorilla tape then make it permanent with glue/epoxy/fiberglass/whatever if you like the change.

 

[Forcefed2002]

Thx for the advice sir, it is appreciated!

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Thx for the advice sir, it is appreciated!

Good luck and let us know how your testing works out.

Also have you tested moving the box? Can you put it behind the driver's seat firing the port into the corner? Often changing position of box/subs/port can make a dramatic difference in response and output, and a centrally located sub in a vehicle is rarely optimum.

 

[Forcefed2002]

I sure will.

I'm also certain you're right about enclosure location.

Unfortunately the console is the only place that I have any free real estate. As a delivery vehicle it's vary rare that I don't have multiple sheets of plywood or drywall in there.

 

[Forcefed2002]

So I taught myself to use Speaker Box Lite (to get my feet wet & it's what was readily available to me.

This appears to be the b4 and after of my enclosure since modifying the port from 26" to 10" and the corresponding volume increase due to the fact.

I tried playing with port variables to get a flatter & lower freq curve but hispls is right (not that I thought you weren't, it's just nice to see it for yourself, u know what I mean ) increasing volume by a couple cubic feet is the only real way to achieve this goal.

Gotta learn Winsd now as I feel like it's a more accurate program?