4 inch four layer coil versus 3 in 8 layer coil?

[mat3833 10+ year member]

The DC audio level fours are ferrite motored 3-in coil eight layers and they only weigh 38 lb a piece which slides them right into my goals. Really interested in the f i neos 3 in as well and I'm sure they are lighter, and more linear as well.

The level 4s are definitely nice. But if you look at a Dayton HO 15 they have virtually the same Xmax, a much lower Fs, and higher sensitivity, all with a 2.5" coil. That adds up to a woofer that gets just as loud on half the power and weighs 30 pounds shipped.

Edit, the DC woofers will definitely be louder when driving a port. As I understand it higher RMS woofers can generate more cone force which can be translated into output through driving a port or passive radiator. Without that port output the Dayton would be just as loud from my somewhat limited experience.

The DC will get louder in a ported enclosure since it has the extra thermal capacity and can drive a port. But the Dayton will sound better and get just as loud on less power in a sealed or 4th order.

There is more to a sub than power handling and cone area. If you just want to get loud, go for the most come area with the beefiest coil you can afford and throw it in a big ported enclosure. If you want to sound good and get loud, you have to look deeper than RMS and cone area.

Matt

 

[Kybasshead75]

The level 4s are definitely nice. But if you look at a Dayton HO 15 they have virtually the same Xmax, a much lower Fs, and higher sensitivity, all with a 2.5" coil. That adds up to a woofer that gets just as loud on half the power and weighs 30 pounds shipped.

The DC will get louder in a ported enclosure since it has the extra thermal capacity and can drive a port. But the Dayton will sound better and get just as loud on less power in a sealed or 4th order.

There is more to a sub than power handling and cone area. If you just want to get loud, go for the most come area with the beefiest coil you can afford and throw it in a big ported enclosure. If you want to sound good and get loud, you have to look deeper than RMS and cone area.

Matt

I had looked at those daytons on Amazon and they look very tempting. I am a musician so my ear is picky and I have considered doing a 6th order as well. Just hesitant because I've always heard they're bad for music.
I do still have three 12-in stereo integrity SQL 12s I haven't had time to install in my Honda. I'm tempted to use those in the SUV I'm getting but would have to run four to fill up the available airspace or run three of them in a bandpass. They have a 2.75-in coil 28 mm xmax and xbl2 motors, and 1k RMS each, very nice subs.
If I went ported I could do 2.25 cubes for each which would be 6.75 cubes and easily fit. Still probably rather have some larger duals in the SUV, bigger spaces need bigger subs in my experience.
Weight be damned, I'm certain four SQL 12s at 4K would sound very good in a little Rav 4

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I had looked at those daytons on Amazon and they look very tempting. I am a musician so my ear is picky and I have considered doing a 6th order as well. Just hesitant because I've always heard they're bad for music.
I do still have three 12-in stereo integrity SQL 12s I haven't had time to install in my Honda. I'm tempted to use those in the SUV I'm getting but would have to run four to fill up the available airspace or run three of them in a bandpass. They have a 2.75-in coil 28 mm xmax and xbl2 motors, and 1k RMS each, very nice subs.
If I went ported I could do 2.25 cubes for each which would be 6.75 cubes and easily fit. Still probably rather have some larger duals in the SUV, bigger spaces need bigger subs in my experience.

I'm not trying to stomp on your idea here btw. I've got a pair of 4 inch coil beehive motors now, and I fully intend to build a pair of 18s or 21s to run in my jetta. It's completely absurd, completely unnecessary, and honestly a bit retarded, but it's what I want to do so that's what I'm doing. Hell, I may end up doing a B-pillar wall with it at this rate so I have the airspace for some kind of 6th order or folded horn nonsense.

If your goals are strictly SPL oriented you have alot less to consider. But if you want it to get loud and sound good, you have alot more planning to do. Im a huge fan of underhung and XBL2 motors. Lots of low distortion excursion and great cone control as well as higher efficiency.

Whatever you go with, buck can design an optimal box. Once I find someone local to meter my system and figure out my cabin gain I'll be getting something designed from him for this 18. And he will be the first person I call if/when I decide to wall or whatever.

Matt

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

The level 4s are definitely nice. But if you look at a Dayton HO 15 they have virtually the same Xmax, a much lower Fs, and higher sensitivity, all with a 2.5" coil. That adds up to a woofer that gets just as loud on half the power and weighs 30 pounds shipped.

The DC will get louder in a ported enclosure since it has the extra thermal capacity and can drive a port. But the Dayton will sound better and get just as loud on less power in a sealed or 4th order.

There is more to a sub than power handling and cone area. If you just want to get loud, go for the most come area with the beefiest coil you can afford and throw it in a big ported enclosure. If you want to sound good and get loud, you have to look deeper than RMS and cone area.

Matt

I disagree with this state. Those DC's are probably going to be louder than the Daytons. Daytons are more HT/SQ oriented. DC's are heavy ground pounders.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I disagree with this state. Those DC's are probably going to be louder than the Daytons. Daytons are more HT/SQ oriented. DC's are heavy ground pounders.

Yes, in an enclosure where the woofer is driving a port the DCs will definitely be louder. I need to clarify that statement. I'll do that now.

From a strictly displacement standpoint the DC and the Dayton are almost equal in output but the Dayton needs much more power to do the same. In a sealed enclosure, the Dayton would be the "winner". However, in a ported box or a 6th order the DC would be louder. I think the Dayton might have the edge in a musical tuned 4th order below tuning, but I'm not sure. You are the box wizard, I'm just the guy that changed subs 2 dozen times in a year and finally found what I like, lol.

Matt

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Yes, in an enclosure where the woofer is driving a port the DCs will definitely be louder. I need to clarify that statement. I'll do that now.

From a strictly displacement standpoint the DC and the Dayton are almost equal in output but the Dayton needs much more power to do the same. In a sealed enclosure, the Dayton would be the "winner". However, in a ported box or a 6th order the DC would be louder. I think the Dayton might have the edge in a musical tuned 4th order below tuning, but I'm not sure. You are the box wizard, I'm just the guy that changed subs 2 dozen times in a year and finally found what I like, lol.

Matt

I personally don't like DC's in 4th orders. Yes, from what I've seen from other dayton subs, dayton's would absolutely shine in a 4th order with it's lower Fs and softer suspension. You could probably play very very well with dayton's in a 4th, I'm down for that design haha, let me know.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

And putting them in sealed will also help those dayton's play up higher. You could do a more HT type 4th with a big sealed and just big enough ported to boost the high end, that would be really musical.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I personally don't like DC's in 4th orders. Yes, from what I've seen from other dayton subs, dayton's would absolutely shine in a 4th order with it's lower Fs and softer suspension. You could probably play very very well with dayton's in a 4th, I'm down for that design haha, let me know.

I just edited that post, does thst clarification track with box logic? Hmm, I have a pair of 15's that would absolutely shine in a big 4th order. They have an Fs of 16hz and 29mm of Xmax.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I just edited that post, does thst clarification track with box logic? Hmm, I have a pair of 15's that would absolutely shine in a big 4th order. They have an Fs of 16hz and 29mm of Xmax.

Let me design one for you haha, we can have fun with it.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Let me design one for you haha, we can have fun with it.

Man I still have to find my cabin gain, finish my front stage, get T/S for this 18 now that it's broken in, and do the 6th order for it if you can cram it in my trunk. The 15's are going to be HT woofers when I move into a new house in 2+ years.

Plus, I'm looking at 800 bux to get coils made for the beehives, plus frames, cones, and soft parts. I'm up to my eyeballs in audio build costs, lol.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Man I still have to find my cabin gain, finish my front stage, get T/S for this 18 now that it's broken in, and do the 6th order for it if you can cram it in my trunk. The 15's are going to be HT woofers when I move into a new house in 2+ years.

Plus, I'm looking at 800 bux to get coils made for the beehives, plus frames, cones, and soft parts. I'm up to my eyeballs in audio build costs, lol.

Oh yeah!!! I forgot that was you.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Oh yeah!!! I forgot that was you.

She's finally broken in, I just have to find someone local that can do some Frequency sweeps and find my cabin gain.

 

[Kybasshead75]

I'm not trying to stomp on your idea here btw. I've got a pair of 4 inch coil beehive motors now, and I fully intend to build a pair of 18s or 21s to run in my jetta. It's completely absurd, completely unnecessary, and honestly a bit retarded, but it's what I want to do so that's what I'm doing. Hell, I may end up doing a B-pillar wall with it at this rate so I have the airspace for some kind of 6th order or folded horn nonsense.

If your goals are strictly SPL oriented you have alot less to consider. But if you want it to get loud and sound good, you have alot more planning to do. Im a huge fan of underhung and XBL2 motors. Lots of low distortion excursion and great cone control as well as higher efficiency.

Whatever you go with, buck can design an optimal box. Once I find someone local to meter my system and figure out my cabin gain I'll be getting something designed from him for this 18. And he will be the first person I call if/when I decide to wall or whatever.

Matt

Hey it's all good I think a pair of 18s or 21s in a Jetta would be stupendous and worth the work! Hobbies are fun, dive in right.
Yeah I'd be willing to compromise a little bit of sound quality for more SPL but me even going ported is further than I usually go from my quad sealed setups I usually run( I'm 46 so I've just stuck with what always worked lol uncertain I'm far behind on the times right now)
Definitely considering the sql's in the suv as I already have them and have an 18-in AA audio chaos to run in my honda( only 40 lbs)

 

[Kybasshead75]

Man I still have to find my cabin gain, finish my front stage, get T/S for this 18 now that it's broken in, and do the 6th order for it if you can cram it in my trunk. The 15's are going to be HT woofers when I move into a new house in 2+ years.

Plus, I'm looking at 800 bux to get coils made for the beehives, plus frames, cones, and soft parts. I'm up to my eyeballs in audio build costs, lol.

This is the type of enthusiasm and education that I enjoy. I just love the hell out of loud music that sounds good

 

[Kybasshead75]

i really like DC’s, great woofers IMO.

Keeping in mind that I listen closely to drum cadence that does enter the subwoofer frequency region do you think level fours ported wood have the transient response I enjoy? I've always heard a smaller ported box offers that at the expense of a little on the bottom which is okay with me I think it will still be enough with the cabin gain of an SUV.
My other option would be to run those three si SQL 12s which I'm pretty certain would satisfy my musicality requirements. Given that I have 42 w x 17h x 32/35d to work with ( this is crutchfield not my measurements I'm still waiting on a family member to transfer the vehicle as they're finding another one), what would you recommend. ( Honestly I would be happy with the most SPL I can get while still having musicality, I understand you can't have it both ways) already have 40 ah of lithium lto and willing to get another 80 if necessary.
SQL- 12
Re: 3.4 Ohms
Fs: 27.9 Hz
Qes: 0.49
Qms: 3.51
Qts: .43
Le: 2.0 mH
Sd: 82.51 in^2
Vas: 29.0 Liters
BL: 23.4
Mms: 449.8 g
Cms: 72.2 uM/N
Xmax: 28.4 mm one-way via 70% BL. (56 mm total p-p linear excursion)
SPL: 92.0 dB (2.83V/1M) – 1 Ohm operation
Power Handling: 1000 watts RMS

Sealed enclosure: 0.65 to 1.0 ft^3
Vented enclosure: 1.5 ft^3 tuned to 24 Hz

Cutout: 285 mm (11.25”)

OD: 322 mm (12.75”)

Mounting Depth: 7.9”

Weight: 26 lbs

Displacement: 0.15 ft^3

SQL- 15
Re: 3.25 Ohms
Fs: 23.8 Hz
Qes: 0.45
Qms: 5.83
Qts: .42
Le: 2.0 mH
Sd: 130.17 in^2
Vas: 115 Liters
BL: 20.417
Mms: 388.55 g
Cms: 115 uM/N
Xmax: 28.4 mm one-way via 70% BL (56 mm total linear excursion)
SPL: 95 dB (2.83V/1M) – 1 Ohm operation
Power Handling: 1000 watts RMS