4 inch four layer coil versus 3 in 8 layer coil?

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

While I'm definitely fascinated with a single big sub big coil setup, I'm going to take your advice and go with 2 15s. The three inch coils and neo motors do look good, and I can definitely see how it would dissipate heat better and be more accurate for music.
Say I wanted to keep my subwoofer weight at 80 lb Max what are some good neo 3-in coil subs that can handle 1500 to 2K that weigh 40 lb or less? Lightweight and smaller box requirements are definitely my best friends!

Maybe some pro audio woofers would be that.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

You probably have to do ferrite at the power level, I would think.

 

[johnmatthew90]

The big difference is cooling capacity. A four inch coil will always have better heat dissipation than a three inch coil of the same length and style, because you can use more wire in that confined space to dissipate heat. The trade off is weight: typically, a four inch coil weighs twice as much as its equivalent sized three inch.

 

[Kybasshead75]

Idk what the Fi SSD calls for but they should be taking orders soon as they said end of June or July. Those are beefy subwoofer and the rms is 1,500 watts. Plus Fi subwoofers are known to take more.

SSD v4 Series | Fi Car Audio

ficaraudio.com

These can work in any design and they have a few options from the 3.5 up to the 3.9. Yeah the wait ***** but you would be happy with a Fi Subwoofer.

NEO 3.x | Fi Car Audio

ficaraudio.com

Been looking at those and they look really good. I don't know what the new neo motor subs way from fi but I'm sure it's less

 

[Kybasshead75]

You probably have to do ferrite at the power level, I would think.

Yeah I was looking around at that on fi's website honestly I could turn the power up to 5K and run 2500 to each of 215s. If it doesn't weigh too much I'd be happy to run 5k.
I was noticing DC audio has really lightweight and small box requirement subs. If I use the big secret compartment below the floor in the back I can add two cubes to the design and could accomplish the 11 ft total cubic feet goal and run two of those 18s and they still only weigh 38 lbs each. I can also build the box a little bit wider up top to fit in some extra space.

 

[Kybasshead75]

The big difference is cooling capacity. A four inch coil will always have better heat dissipation than a three inch coil of the same length and style, because you can use more wire in that confined space to dissipate heat. The trade off is weight: typically, a four inch coil weighs twice as much as its equivalent sized three inch.

Seems like they're always rated to take more power and are more muscular on The low end judging by the 4-in coil subs I've heard.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

While I'm definitely fascinated with a single big sub big coil setup, I'm going to take your advice and go with 2 15s. The three inch coils and neo motors do look good, and I can definitely see how it would dissipate heat better and be more accurate for music.
Say I wanted to keep my subwoofer weight at 80 lb Max what are some good neo 3-in coil subs that can handle 1500 to 2K that weigh 40 lb or less? Lightweight and smaller box requirements are definitely my best friends!

If you are that worried about weight you may be better off changing your goals. My single neo18 weighs something like 50 pounds. Most of that weight is the motor. I have a pair of 2inch coil ferrite motor 15's, and they weigh about 85 pounds for the pair.

You are going to have to go with a neo motor to come even close to your weight goals. Personally, if I was that worried about weight I would get buck to design a 6th order for a single 15 or a pair of 12s and run less power.

Sound pressure is all about displacement. A single 12 with 3 inches of Xmax can and will get louder than a single 15 with only 1.5 inches of Xmax. I would focus your search on a pair of 12s or 15s with alot of Xmax and a softer suspension. Running 5k to a single woofer is awesome and all, but I'd rather run 1k to a woofer and get the same output with a more efficient driver.

Matt

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Yeah I was looking around at that on fi's website honestly I could turn the power up to 5K and run 2500 to each of 215s. If it doesn't weigh too much I'd be happy to run 5k.
I was noticing DC audio has really lightweight and small box requirement subs. If I use the big secret compartment below the floor in the back I can add two cubes to the design and could accomplish the 11 ft total cubic feet goal and run two of those 18s and they still only weigh 38 lbs each. I can also build the box a little bit wider up top to fit in some extra space.

i really like DC’s, great woofers IMO.

 

[Kybasshead75]

If you are that worried about weight you may be better off changing your goals. My single neo18 weighs something like 50 pounds. Most of that weight is the motor. I have a pair of 2inch coil ferrite motor 15's, and they weigh about 85 pounds for the pair.

You are going to have to go with a neo motor to come even close to your weight goals. Personally, if I was that worried about weight I would get buck to design a 6th order for a single 15 or a pair of 12s and run less power.

Sound pressure is all about displacement. A single 12 with 3 inches of Xmax can and will get louder than a single 15 with only 1.5 inches of Xmax. I would focus your search on a pair of 12s or 15s with alot of Xmax and a softer suspension. Running 5k to a single woofer is awesome and all, but I'd rather run 1k to a woofer and get the same output with a more efficient driver.

Matt

The DC audio level fours are ferrite motored 3-in coil eight layers and they only weigh 38 lb a piece which slides them right into my goals. Really interested in the f i neos 3 in as well and I'm sure they are lighter, and more linear as well.

 

[Kybasshead75]

i really like DC’s, great woofers IMO.

I have never heard them myself how do they perform with daily music ported?
It is pretty tempting to use all my space and run two lvl 4 18s @ the suggested 11 cubes.
Shouldn't be long before I get the damn vehicle and can personally verify it will work as I always make a test fit box when pushing space.
Thanks again

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

The DC audio level fours are ferrite motored 3-in coil eight layers and they only weigh 38 lb a piece which slides them right into my goals. Really interested in the f i neos 3 in as well and I'm sure they are lighter, and more linear as well.

The level 4s are definitely nice. But if you look at a Dayton HO 15 they have virtually the same Xmax, a much lower Fs, and higher sensitivity, all with a 2.5" coil. That adds up to a woofer that gets just as loud on half the power and weighs 30 pounds shipped.

Edit, the DC woofers will definitely be louder when driving a port. As I understand it higher RMS woofers can generate more cone force which can be translated into output through driving a port or passive radiator. Without that port output the Dayton would be just as loud from my somewhat limited experience.

The DC will get louder in a ported enclosure since it has the extra thermal capacity and can drive a port. But the Dayton will sound better and get just as loud on less power in a sealed or 4th order.

There is more to a sub than power handling and cone area. If you just want to get loud, go for the most come area with the beefiest coil you can afford and throw it in a big ported enclosure. If you want to sound good and get loud, you have to look deeper than RMS and cone area.

Matt

 

[Kybasshead75]

The level 4s are definitely nice. But if you look at a Dayton HO 15 they have virtually the same Xmax, a much lower Fs, and higher sensitivity, all with a 2.5" coil. That adds up to a woofer that gets just as loud on half the power and weighs 30 pounds shipped.

The DC will get louder in a ported enclosure since it has the extra thermal capacity and can drive a port. But the Dayton will sound better and get just as loud on less power in a sealed or 4th order.

There is more to a sub than power handling and cone area. If you just want to get loud, go for the most come area with the beefiest coil you can afford and throw it in a big ported enclosure. If you want to sound good and get loud, you have to look deeper than RMS and cone area.

Matt

I had looked at those daytons on Amazon and they look very tempting. I am a musician so my ear is picky and I have considered doing a 6th order as well. Just hesitant because I've always heard they're bad for music.
I do still have three 12-in stereo integrity SQL 12s I haven't had time to install in my Honda. I'm tempted to use those in the SUV I'm getting but would have to run four to fill up the available airspace or run three of them in a bandpass. They have a 2.75-in coil 28 mm xmax and xbl2 motors, and 1k RMS each, very nice subs.
If I went ported I could do 2.25 cubes for each which would be 6.75 cubes and easily fit. Still probably rather have some larger duals in the SUV, bigger spaces need bigger subs in my experience.
Weight be damned, I'm certain four SQL 12s at 4K would sound very good in a little Rav 4

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I had looked at those daytons on Amazon and they look very tempting. I am a musician so my ear is picky and I have considered doing a 6th order as well. Just hesitant because I've always heard they're bad for music.
I do still have three 12-in stereo integrity SQL 12s I haven't had time to install in my Honda. I'm tempted to use those in the SUV I'm getting but would have to run four to fill up the available airspace or run three of them in a bandpass. They have a 2.75-in coil 28 mm xmax and xbl2 motors, and 1k RMS each, very nice subs.
If I went ported I could do 2.25 cubes for each which would be 6.75 cubes and easily fit. Still probably rather have some larger duals in the SUV, bigger spaces need bigger subs in my experience.

I'm not trying to stomp on your idea here btw. I've got a pair of 4 inch coil beehive motors now, and I fully intend to build a pair of 18s or 21s to run in my jetta. It's completely absurd, completely unnecessary, and honestly a bit retarded, but it's what I want to do so that's what I'm doing. Hell, I may end up doing a B-pillar wall with it at this rate so I have the airspace for some kind of 6th order or folded horn nonsense.

If your goals are strictly SPL oriented you have alot less to consider. But if you want it to get loud and sound good, you have alot more planning to do. Im a huge fan of underhung and XBL2 motors. Lots of low distortion excursion and great cone control as well as higher efficiency.

Whatever you go with, buck can design an optimal box. Once I find someone local to meter my system and figure out my cabin gain I'll be getting something designed from him for this 18. And he will be the first person I call if/when I decide to wall or whatever.

Matt

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

The level 4s are definitely nice. But if you look at a Dayton HO 15 they have virtually the same Xmax, a much lower Fs, and higher sensitivity, all with a 2.5" coil. That adds up to a woofer that gets just as loud on half the power and weighs 30 pounds shipped.

The DC will get louder in a ported enclosure since it has the extra thermal capacity and can drive a port. But the Dayton will sound better and get just as loud on less power in a sealed or 4th order.

There is more to a sub than power handling and cone area. If you just want to get loud, go for the most come area with the beefiest coil you can afford and throw it in a big ported enclosure. If you want to sound good and get loud, you have to look deeper than RMS and cone area.

Matt

I disagree with this state. Those DC's are probably going to be louder than the Daytons. Daytons are more HT/SQ oriented. DC's are heavy ground pounders.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I disagree with this state. Those DC's are probably going to be louder than the Daytons. Daytons are more HT/SQ oriented. DC's are heavy ground pounders.

Yes, in an enclosure where the woofer is driving a port the DCs will definitely be louder. I need to clarify that statement. I'll do that now.

From a strictly displacement standpoint the DC and the Dayton are almost equal in output but the Dayton needs much more power to do the same. In a sealed enclosure, the Dayton would be the "winner". However, in a ported box or a 6th order the DC would be louder. I think the Dayton might have the edge in a musical tuned 4th order below tuning, but I'm not sure. You are the box wizard, I'm just the guy that changed subs 2 dozen times in a year and finally found what I like, lol.

Matt

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Yes, in an enclosure where the woofer is driving a port the DCs will definitely be louder. I need to clarify that statement. I'll do that now.

From a strictly displacement standpoint the DC and the Dayton are almost equal in output but the Dayton needs much more power to do the same. In a sealed enclosure, the Dayton would be the "winner". However, in a ported box or a 6th order the DC would be louder. I think the Dayton might have the edge in a musical tuned 4th order below tuning, but I'm not sure. You are the box wizard, I'm just the guy that changed subs 2 dozen times in a year and finally found what I like, lol.

Matt

I personally don't like DC's in 4th orders. Yes, from what I've seen from other dayton subs, dayton's would absolutely shine in a 4th order with it's lower Fs and softer suspension. You could probably play very very well with dayton's in a 4th, I'm down for that design haha, let me know.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

And putting them in sealed will also help those dayton's play up higher. You could do a more HT type 4th with a big sealed and just big enough ported to boost the high end, that would be really musical.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I personally don't like DC's in 4th orders. Yes, from what I've seen from other dayton subs, dayton's would absolutely shine in a 4th order with it's lower Fs and softer suspension. You could probably play very very well with dayton's in a 4th, I'm down for that design haha, let me know.

I just edited that post, does thst clarification track with box logic? Hmm, I have a pair of 15's that would absolutely shine in a big 4th order. They have an Fs of 16hz and 29mm of Xmax.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I just edited that post, does thst clarification track with box logic? Hmm, I have a pair of 15's that would absolutely shine in a big 4th order. They have an Fs of 16hz and 29mm of Xmax.

Let me design one for you haha, we can have fun with it.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Let me design one for you haha, we can have fun with it.

Man I still have to find my cabin gain, finish my front stage, get T/S for this 18 now that it's broken in, and do the 6th order for it if you can cram it in my trunk. The 15's are going to be HT woofers when I move into a new house in 2+ years.

Plus, I'm looking at 800 bux to get coils made for the beehives, plus frames, cones, and soft parts. I'm up to my eyeballs in audio build costs, lol.