15'' Avalanche ported or 18'' Avalanche sealed? (Ascendant Audio)

[Brian Owens 10+ year member]

Havoc will not have the low end the Avalanche has, but it would be a GREAT sub on 1400 watts.

The avalanche was a low end monster, but also does not sound that great above 65 Hz IMO.

edit - maybe I should not say "low end". The XBL motor has a VERY smooth low end that makes it sound different than many other subs in the low end. Some people actually did not like it, because at times it does not sound as loud. But the Havoc still has awesome low end response in the correctly designed box.

Brian

 

[Ray21 10+ year member]

15 sealed.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

As Brian said...

Bad idea running that much power. For one the AVA has a different surround compliance that is MUCH floppier then all 'normal' surrounds that you may get...

Also it is meant to have 1 soft spider with a very specific coil...and that coil honestly should never get more then 600 watts as small as it is.

If you feel the need to run that much power then you should look into a different sub.

 

[chardy85 10+ year member]

I had a friend a while back that had the AVA 18 sealed in a Cadillac Deville. He then got a 15" AVA and ported it.

He said he liked the ported 15 A lot better.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

If it matter any since we are talking about avalanches I have on that just got reconed that i don't need anymore and it's a 15. PM for more info.

That being said I liked it when I ran it last time at about 4cubes and 30hz tuning.

 

[TeamPSI 10+ year member]

As Brian said...
Bad idea running that much power. For one the AVA has a different surround compliance that is MUCH floppier then all 'normal' surrounds that you may get...

Also it is meant to have 1 soft spider with a very specific coil...and that coil honestly should never get more then 600 watts as small as it is.

If you feel the need to run that much power then you should look into a different sub.

The surround on it was no different than anything else. Dont know who told you that.

The same coil was used in the Brahma which was rated for 1600w rms, in the same gap size. Dont know where you get 600w from.

BUT even better yet, I do have 4 layer flatwound coils made for those motors as well, so...

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

The surround on it was no different than anything else. Dont know who told you that.
The same coil was used in the Brahma which was rated for 1600w rms, in the same gap size. Dont know where you get 600w from.

BUT even better yet, I do have 4 layer flatwound coils made for those motors as well, so...

I know the surround was different because I built one last week for a gentleman that has 4 of them in a IB setup in his home...due to that his parameters aren't going to match on all of them nor is it the same as it was intended to be. (More w7ish where the surround does all the work and the spider is just hanging out along for the ride...)

It is MUCH softer on the 18 in order to get the parameters that Chad wanted. The 15 is the same surround...the 18..is not. If you just have one of them then it isn't a problem...but again, it is not how it was intended to be.

Realistically..it is a 600 watt coil...800 tops.

How many Brahma's exploded with 1600 watts a 4 layer 32mm long copper coil and 1 soft spider? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif..you know how boy blue rated stuff...when it exploded is the rms.

 

[TeamPSI 10+ year member]

Different than what? Im saying that it is not a completely oddball surround made specifically for some special purpose. It may have a softer compliance than some surrounds (IE: A Fi BTL) but it is not in any way shape or form a "FLOPPY" surround. In all actuality, it is only about 25% "FLOPPIER" than the surrounds we were using on RE Audio woofers at that time. It is still very much stiffer than a lot of surrounds used on 18" woofers in the market today.

You're making it out to be a single layer of paper or something, Nick. It's not.

I stock 18" cone assemblies with a stiffer, more heavy foam material, and also a lighter more compliant version as well. My softer 18" surround has a softer compliance than was used on the 18" Avalanche, and is still stiffer than what a lot of people are using.

And about the coil, that same exact coil was used in DD 9500 series woofers for, what, 10 years? How much do they handle? The cooling helps, but not by 1400w rms. It's not a 600w coil man. Were the avalanches rated at 600w rms?

 

[Brian Owens 10+ year member]

Back in the day they were rate 800. . .

 

[av8ter 10+ year member]

I am still way up in the air about all this lol.......

Kevin

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Different than what? Im saying that it is not a completely oddball surround made specifically for some special purpose. It may have a softer compliance than some surrounds (IE: A Fi BTL) but it is not in any way shape or form a "FLOPPY" surround. In all actuality, it is only about 25% "FLOPPIER" than the surrounds we were using on RE Audio woofers at that time. It is still very much stiffer than a lot of surrounds used on 18" woofers in the market today.
You're making it out to be a single layer of paper or something, Nick. It's not.

I stock 18" cone assemblies with a stiffer, more heavy foam material, and also a lighter more compliant version as well. My softer 18" surround has a softer compliance than was used on the 18" Avalanche, and is still stiffer than what a lot of people are using.

And about the coil, that same exact coil was used in DD 9500 series woofers for, what, 10 years? How much do they handle? The cooling helps, but not by 1400w rms. It's not a 600w coil man. Were the avalanches rated at 600w rms?

I'm not making it out to be anything other then this:

They were rated at 800 watts.

The original surround was softer...just making the guy aware of that who is wanting to buy it is all.

What were the juggernauts rated at that used that little coil (9515B's)?...they also did not have a single soft spider either...

He'll either thermal it or kill it mechanically with 1400 watts. Telling somebody they can do that is like giving a 7 year old a can of gas and a pack of matches and telling them to not set anything on fire.

But...carry on...

 

[TeamPSI 10+ year member]

So you're claiming that the DD/Mmats woofers with these similar coils handled more thermal power due to the spiders?! The spiders have nothing to do with it.

This is an 18" woofer we're talking about, with a fairly weak motor. 1400 watts of power would in no way, shape, or form even get that woofer anywhere close to it's mechanical limit.... Not even close man. It would take an actual 3" of p-p excursion to max the spider, and more than that to max the surround. He'll never see that. Maybe 1.75"-2" p-p.

But what do I know? Not like I laid a hand on every Avalanche or MK1-2 Brahma that was ever built.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

So you're claiming that the DD/Mmats woofers with these similar coils handled more thermal power due to the spiders?! The spiders have nothing to do with it.
This is an 18" woofer we're talking about, with a fairly weak motor. 1400 watts of power would in no way, shape, or form even get that woofer anywhere close to it's mechanical limit.... Not even close man. It would take an actual 3" of p-p excursion to max the spider, and more than that to max the surround. He'll never see that. Maybe 1.75"-2" p-p.

But what do I know? Not like I laid a hand on every Avalanche or MK1-2 Brahma that was ever built.

No.

I'm saying that he will either kill it thermally. Or mechanically...you forgot everything about DAF.

Thermally with 1400 watts due to the korean/chinese amps..bass boost..volume knobs wide open etc. There is no cooling at all inside of that motor. Not to mention how cheap power from the orient is now...everybody is making a bigger and bigger amp. 15 year old kids can now easily afford a 3000 or 3500 watt amp...which was unheard of during the time of the Ava..and the Brahma. 1200 watts was as big as the amps would come...1500 watts was crazy...and 'strapping' amps had just came around...

Mechanically it will fail from only having 1 spider and 1400 watts...no subsonic filter..or one that isn't variable. Or people turning it down because "It makes the subs move more" Yanking the one cute dainty little spider (that is indeed good to 32mm) to pieces..because it is not made for constant abuse in a car playing below tuning with no subsonic filtering.

There is a reason why it was rated at 800 watts..and not 1000..1400..1600..etc. like the Brahma was...which is why so many of the Brahma's broke.

Power got cheap....every kid around is running at least 2kw in a daily driver with a stock electrical system dipping below 11 volts regularly...

But whatever...tell the kid it will take that much power. I guess you'll sell him another recone when he kills it.

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

You will rip that speaker in half with 1600w. That spider is waaay too frail for that, especially in a ported box. Thermally I don't see the coil taking it either.

I wouldn't go over 800-1kW with it, regardless of box. The spiders/suspension absolutely are a factor in mechanical powerhandling. Thermal is largely determined by the coil/cooling system, obviously, but the suspension can still be a factor.

Lastly, if you care AT ALL about sound quality, I have no idea why you'd even consider a ported box in a car. Why not use that handy transfer function you get in a car (ZOMG!) and just go sealed?

The AVA is a solid woofer, but you're trying to overpower it by quite a bit. I agree with Nick, if you port that in a car with that much power, you're going to wind up with a broken sub. Mechnical powerhandling wouldn't be a huge concern in a proper sized sealed box, but the thermal powerhandling would still be an issue.

IMO, seal it, and use less power. 800w-1kW TOPS, and you're solid.

 

[TeamPSI 10+ year member]

No.
I'm saying that he will either kill it thermally. Or mechanically...you forgot everything about DAF.

Thermally with 1400 watts due to the korean/chinese amps..bass boost..volume knobs wide open etc. There is no cooling at all inside of that motor. Not to mention how cheap power from the orient is now...everybody is making a bigger and bigger amp. 15 year old kids can now easily afford a 3000 or 3500 watt amp...which was unheard of during the time of the Ava..and the Brahma. 1200 watts was as big as the amps would come...1500 watts was crazy...and 'strapping' amps had just came around...

Mechanically it will fail from only having 1 spider and 1400 watts...no subsonic filter..or one that isn't variable. Or people turning it down because "It makes the subs move more" Yanking the one cute dainty little spider (that is indeed good to 32mm) to pieces..because it is not made for constant abuse in a car playing below tuning with no subsonic filtering.

There is a reason why it was rated at 800 watts..and not 1000..1400..1600..etc. like the Brahma was...which is why so many of the Brahma's broke.

Power got cheap....every kid around is running at least 2kw in a daily driver with a stock electrical system dipping below 11 volts regularly...

But whatever...tell the kid it will take that much power. I guess you'll sell him another recone when he kills it.

LOL, I might apply DAF (Dumb Ass Factor) if the situation warrants it, or if I'm making assumptions for an entire market, not one particular person. I do not personally feel like this particular individual is a dumbass, nor do I forsee a 3kw amp being used on it, so the situation doesnt warrant it. Thanks though. Im glad to see you giving the "kid" so much credit.

I've sold him product before, know his install, and his equipment. I know what he wants from the system, and what it will take to get him there.

I think I'm fairly knowledgeable about what will work and what won't. I do this every day Nick. I make custom woofers for each individual customer and their application.

(Who said I would send this guy a bone stock Avalanche anyway? Did we ever discuss what I would or wouldnt use for his application? Would my 4 layer flatwound 1.22" long coil not handle 1400w? Do you know? Have you ever used one? Could I possibly be smart enough to re-engineer it to OEM spec with better parts? Surely not!!!)