12w6 vs 13w6

[cotjones 10+ year member]

You, sir, are a tad misinformed.
Read up on power compression for a little bit:

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7112

that thread talks about sound compression... it has nothing to do with what i said... my arguement is with the amp... everyone knows compression exists you can't get rid of it... but i'm saying that if you want to get lower volume out of the sub with a better or just as good sound quality you can't just use a smaller amp... you have to use one capable of driving the sub and simply turn the gain down... please explain what this has to do with compression

 

[Savstyle 10+ year member]

my god, helotaxi is a saint for trying to inform for as long as he did.

/yourself

 

[Hintzyboy 5,000+ posts]

How is a large amp with the gains down any different than a smaller amp with the gains up? If you set them to produce the same output, then the only difference is the strain on the amp.

 

[Echo42987 10+ year member]

89% better efficienty then the 12w6

-Nick-

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

How is a large amp with the gains down any different than a smaller amp with the gains up? If you set them to produce the same output, then the only difference is the strain on the amp.

this is how it is different:

1) the amplifier that is set to the higher gain is amplifying the input by a smaller amplification factor than the larger one is to produce the same output... this is where most of the signal distortion comes in... now amps specifically jl amps are designed to deal with this distortion... a 250/1 is designed to filter 250watts of power, a 1000/1 is designed to filter 1000 watts and thus filters 250watts far better than the 250/1 will...

2)in the waveform of the input there are allways frequencies that "peak" higher than your system was configured to handle... with the 250/1 this results in the output trying to increase more than the amp can handle causing "clipping"... on the contrary with the 1000/1 this would appear to be a slight increase in the gain which would be completely acceptable considering that your gain is only 25% to begin with

2 questions... does anyone dissagree? and why? if your not answering both don't answer at all and save everyones time

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

How is a large amp with the gains down any different than a smaller amp with the gains up? If you set them to produce the same output, then the only difference is the strain on the amp.

also something i forgot to mention is that compression occurs everywhere in an electrical system the hotter an amp gets from high strain... the more resistant it is to the input signal and voltage... in theory a amp heating up is similar to turning the gain down thus decreasing the possible output of the amp... not to mention that the larger sub will try to draw more power from the amp when the system peaks because a speaker resists change in the current traveling through it this puts a strain on the small amp that it was not designed to handle makeing it over heat quickly and give horrible clipping

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

89% better efficienty then the 12w6
-Nick-

efficienty? or air displacement? i believe that reference efficiency of the 13 over the 12 is only 32%

 

[adas Pro Seller]

Cot, your reasoning doesn't make much sense, but I won't argue....think what u want, no one can tell u anything anyways.

If your praising JL amps so much, if a 250/1 is designed to put out 250w of clean power, and a 1000/1 is ment to put out 1000 of clean power, why would 250w of the 1000/1 be any cleaner then the 250/1 if it's putting out an unclipped signal?

I'm just not going to argue with a guy who is using a 13w6 and 10 w6's playing the same frequencies.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

And your arguing about impendance rise, but hey I thought the all holy JL amps could do 1-4 ohms without any problems??//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif You won't overheat a good amp by playing it at it's rated power........but sure I would see your point if were talking sony/pyle amps that can't put out rated power, and THEN u want to get a higher rated amp because the smaller ones won't put out a clean signal like they're supposed to.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[aaa70389 10+ year member]

from wat JL claims the 13w6 can move 89% are than the 12w6 if that says anything?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Cot, your reasoning doesn't make much sense, but I won't argue....think what u want, no one can tell u anything anyways.
If your praising JL amps so much, if a 250/1 is designed to put out 250w of clean power, and a 1000/1 is ment to put out 1000 of clean power, why would 250w of the 1000/1 be any cleaner then the 250/1 if it's putting out an unclipped signal?

I'm just not going to argue with a guy who is using a 13w6 and 10 w6's playing the same frequencies.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

And your arguing about impendance rise, but hey I thought the all holy JL amps could do 1-4 ohms without any problems??//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif You won't overheat a good amp by playing it at it's rated power........but sure I would see your point if were talking sony/pyle amps that can't put out rated power, and THEN u want to get a higher rated amp because the smaller ones won't put out a clean signal like they're supposed to.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

yes but that gain is specifically set by the ohm load to get the recomended power... if you have a 13w7 on a 250/1 with the gain all the way up yes you will get clipping and its 1.5 to 4 ohms... and the 13w7 is 1.5 so if you had an impedence rise ur exeding amp specifications that= overheating=clipping

 

[aaa70389 10+ year member]

not necessarily i have 4 double 18" jbl cabinets that are 1600rms and i have crown microtech 2400's running stereo giving each cabinet 800 rms and i'm getting a 5500 sqft.rm to 130db and have no strain on the amps

 

[dontrevme 10+ year member]

How is a large amp with the gains down any different than a smaller amp with the gains up? If you set them to produce the same output, then the only difference is the strain on the amp.

The amplifiers gains are controlling how much you are amplifying the input signal, any input signal imperfection will also be amplified. Any whines or pops. Also, headroom is EXTREMELY important when your system demands peaks of power.

I assumed you knew all this when you flamed me in the other thread about the w7 woofers

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

this is how it is different:
1) the amplifier that is set to the higher gain is amplifying the input by a smaller amplification factor than the larger one is to produce the same output... this is where most of the signal distortion comes in... now amps specifically jl amps are designed to deal with this distortion... a 250/1 is designed to filter 250watts of power, a 1000/1 is designed to filter 1000 watts and thus filters 250watts far better than the 250/1 will...

2)in the waveform of the input there are allways frequencies that "peak" higher than your system was configured to handle... with the 250/1 this results in the output trying to increase more than the amp can handle causing "clipping"... on the contrary with the 1000/1 this would appear to be a slight increase in the gain which would be completely acceptable considering that your gain is only 25% to begin with

2 questions... does anyone dissagree? and why? if your not answering both don't answer at all and save everyones time

1.Your first point is akin to this. My car can go 100mph, yours can only make 95, my car is faster when we both go 60... If both amps can handle the amount of wattage they are being asked to produce, neither amp will do it any worse than the other, at least not of any audible difference.

2.Set your gains with a 0db tone on a given preset volume. No music will ever peak higher than that tone on that given volume level.

Power is power, 250 watts from an amp that can put out 1000 is just as good as that wattage coming from an amp that can only put out 500.

 

[cotsretribution]

The amplifiers gains are controlling how much you are amplifying the input signal, any input signal imperfection will also be amplified. Any whines or pops. Also, headroom is EXTREMELY important when your system demands peaks of power.
I assumed you knew all this when you flamed me in the other thread about the w7 woofers

lol i wish i knew how to say what was in my head as well as other people do

 

[cotsretribution]

1.Your first point is akin to this. My car can go 100mph, yours can only make 95, my car is faster when we both go 60... If both amps can handle the amount of wattage they are being asked to produce, neither amp will do it any worse than the other, at least not of any audible difference.

i understand your consept in the first point but its not a correct annalogy its more like your car will have better mileage and run smoother at 60 than mine will

2.Set your gains with a 0db tone on a given preset volume. No music will ever peak higher than that tone on that given volume level.

yes but imperfections are amplified more when the amplification factor is greater

Power is power, 250 watts from an amp that can put out 1000 is just as good as that wattage coming from an amp that can only put out 500.

purty close in this example (250 is half of the smaller amps capacity) but if i wanted 500 wats i'd go with a 1000/1... my point is that you can get better quality when you are not using all the power that the amp can give