New system installed… maybe my expectations are too high?

[EricF]

Hey guys,

I recently had a system put in my 09 avalanche. Here’s a quick breakdown of what I’m running.

2 12” Kicker CompR’s, 4.4 cuft ported box, DB drive WDX 1000 watt amp, (Subs are wired to 1ohm) 6.5” DB drive mids and 1” tweeters ran off the the stock bose amp. And a new kenwood head unit.

It all sounds pretty good but you really need to crank the volume on the head unit to get the bass going (28+ out of 40) and by then the mids/highs are screaming in your ears. At half volume with the bass knob at max the subs are hardly even working. It also just seems like the subs want to skip over low notes compared to any of my previous set ups. I purposely went with a ported box this time around to get more air moving, plus everyone says if you want a louder set up to go that route. The excursion of these subs looks nothing like the YouTube videos out there and I can’t see these being underpowered.

The shop had the amp gain set at 60% of the dial and the bass boost at +12db (I have an external bass remote). They also had the LPF set at the 50hz minimum which I later found out was way off. I moved it to 80hz. Subsonic is at 18-20hz for reference.

I figured this set up would absolutely pound. My previous 4 8’s walk all over it, especially on the lower notes which I can’t understand.

Thanks for any help and I apologize for the long post!

Click to read more...

 

[CarAudio.com - Hal AI Bots]

Hey guys,

I recently had a system put in my 09 avalanche. Here’s a quick breakdown of what I’m running.

2 12” Kicker CompR’s, 4.4 cuft ported box, DB drive WDX 1000 watt amp, (Subs are wired to 1ohm) 6.5” DB drive mids and 1” tweeters ran off the the stock bose amp. And a new kenwood head unit.

It all sounds pretty good but you really need to crank the volume on the head unit to get the bass going (28+ out of 40) and by then the mids/highs are screaming in your ears. At half volume with the bass knob at max the subs are hardly even working. It also just seems like the subs want to skip over low notes compared to any of my previous set ups. I purposely went with a ported box this time around to get more air moving, plus everyone says if you want a louder set up to go that route. The excursion of these subs looks nothing like the YouTube videos out there and I can’t see these being underpowered.

The shop had the amp gain set at 60% of the dial and the bass boost at +12db (I have an external bass remote). They also had the LPF set at the 50hz minimum which I later found out was way off. I moved it to 80hz. Subsonic is at 18-20hz for reference.

I figured this set up would absolutely pound. My previous 4 8’s walk all over it, especially on the lower notes which I can’t understand.

Thanks for any help and I apologize for the long post!

Hey Eric,

Thanks for sharing the details about your setup! It sounds like you're experiencing a few common issues that can arise with car audio systems, especially when mixing components from different brands. Let's break down a few areas where you might be able to improve the performance of your system.

### 1. **Gain and Bass Boost Settings:**
It sounds like the shop set the gain and bass boost a bit high. Here’s what you can do:

- **Gain**: Typically, the gain should be set to a level that matches your head unit's output without distortion. Start with the gain at 0% and gradually increase it while playing a song with a strong bass line. Stop increasing when you start to hear distortion, then back off slightly.

- **Bass Boost**: Instead of setting it at +12dB, try setting it to 0dB or a lower level. Bass boost can sometimes muddy the sound and cause distortion.

### 2. **LPF (Low Pass Filter) Settings:**
You mentioned you changed the LPF to 80Hz, which is generally a good starting point. If your mids and highs are overpowering the bass, consider fine-tuning this:

- Experiment with lowering the LPF to around 70Hz or even 60Hz. This can help ensure that the subs are handling the lower frequencies more effectively while letting the mids handle the higher frequencies.

### 3. **Subsonic Filter Settings:**
The subsonic filter at 18-20Hz seems a bit low. You might want to raise it to around 25Hz to 30Hz. This setting helps to prevent the subs from trying to reproduce frequencies that they can’t efficiently handle, which can lead to distortion and poor performance.

### 4. **Wiring and Power Supply:**
Make sure that the wiring to the amp and subs is adequate. Check the gauge of your power and ground wires; if they are too thin, they may not be providing enough power to your amp. Also, ensure that your alternator can handle the additional load and that the battery is healthy.

### 5. **Box Tuning:**
While ported boxes are typically louder, ensure that your box is properly tuned for the Kicker CompR subs. If it’s not tuned to the right frequency (usually around 30-35Hz for these subs), it can affect low-end response. You might want to check the manufacturer’s recommendations for the ideal tuning frequency.

### 6. **Head Unit Settings:**
Make sure the head unit's EQ settings are optimized. Sometimes, factory EQ settings can hinder performance. Try flat EQ settings or specifically boost the lower frequencies to see if that helps.

### 7. **Testing with Different Music:**
Try testing your system with various genres of music that have different bass characteristics. Some songs have bass lines that are more challenging for certain setups, so it’s worth experimenting.

### Conclusion:
After adjusting these settings, give your system another listen and see if there’s an improvement. It's a process of trial and error, and sometimes small changes can lead to significant improvements in sound quality.

Feel free to update us on your progress or ask further questions. Also, other members, feel free to chime in with any additional tips or advice!

 

[EricF]

Hey Eric,

Thanks for sharing the details about your setup! It sounds like you're experiencing a few common issues that can arise with car audio systems, especially when mixing components from different brands. Let's break down a few areas where you might be able to improve the performance of your system.

### 1. **Gain and Bass Boost Settings:**
It sounds like the shop set the gain and bass boost a bit high. Here’s what you can do:

- **Gain**: Typically, the gain should be set to a level that matches your head unit's output without distortion. Start with the gain at 0% and gradually increase it while playing a song with a strong bass line. Stop increasing when you start to hear distortion, then back off slightly.

- **Bass Boost**: Instead of setting it at +12dB, try setting it to 0dB or a lower level. Bass boost can sometimes muddy the sound and cause distortion.

### 2. **LPF (Low Pass Filter) Settings:**
You mentioned you changed the LPF to 80Hz, which is generally a good starting point. If your mids and highs are overpowering the bass, consider fine-tuning this:

- Experiment with lowering the LPF to around 70Hz or even 60Hz. This can help ensure that the subs are handling the lower frequencies more effectively while letting the mids handle the higher frequencies.

### 3. **Subsonic Filter Settings:**
The subsonic filter at 18-20Hz seems a bit low. You might want to raise it to around 25Hz to 30Hz. This setting helps to prevent the subs from trying to reproduce frequencies that they can’t efficiently handle, which can lead to distortion and poor performance.

### 4. **Wiring and Power Supply:**
Make sure that the wiring to the amp and subs is adequate. Check the gauge of your power and ground wires; if they are too thin, they may not be providing enough power to your amp. Also, ensure that your alternator can handle the additional load and that the battery is healthy.

### 5. **Box Tuning:**
While ported boxes are typically louder, ensure that your box is properly tuned for the Kicker CompR subs. If it’s not tuned to the right frequency (usually around 30-35Hz for these subs), it can affect low-end response. You might want to check the manufacturer’s recommendations for the ideal tuning frequency.

### 6. **Head Unit Settings:**
Make sure the head unit's EQ settings are optimized. Sometimes, factory EQ settings can hinder performance. Try flat EQ settings or specifically boost the lower frequencies to see if that helps.

### 7. **Testing with Different Music:**
Try testing your system with various genres of music that have different bass characteristics. Some songs have bass lines that are more challenging for certain setups, so it’s worth experimenting.

### Conclusion:
After adjusting these settings, give your system another listen and see if there’s an improvement. It's a process of trial and error, and sometimes small changes can lead to significant improvements in sound quality.

Feel free to update us on your progress or ask further questions. Also, other members, feel free to chime in with any additional tips or advice!

Thanks for the quick reply. I thought the bass boost and gain was a touch high but wouldn’t turning the bass boost to 0 and dialing the gain back a touch hurt the bass even more? Also isn’t the external bass remote tied to the bass boost? I made sure the head unit was all at 0 gain across the board. The issue is I don’t want the mids/highs screaming in my ears just to get bass. I could get the wipers to move on my last set up at half volume.

They used 4 gauge wiring for the subs. I had 0 for the 4 8’s I use to have.

As for the box, there isn’t many options for these trucks unless you have a custom one made. I got quotes from 4 different shops and they all wanted $2000 minimum. I figured this box was perfect for the CompR as it looks like it’s happy in a pretty wide box configuration (1.75-2.25cuft per sub). I can’t find what the box is tuned to but I’d imagine it’s in the 30-35hz range.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Hey guys,

I recently had a system put in my 09 avalanche. Here’s a quick breakdown of what I’m running.

2 12” Kicker CompR’s, 4.4 cuft ported box, DB drive WDX 1000 watt amp, (Subs are wired to 1ohm) 6.5” DB drive mids and 1” tweeters ran off the the stock bose amp. And a new kenwood head unit.

It all sounds pretty good but you really need to crank the volume on the head unit to get the bass going (28+ out of 40) and by then the mids/highs are screaming in your ears. At half volume with the bass knob at max the subs are hardly even working. It also just seems like the subs want to skip over low notes compared to any of my previous set ups. I purposely went with a ported box this time around to get more air moving, plus everyone says if you want a louder set up to go that route. The excursion of these subs looks nothing like the YouTube videos out there and I can’t see these being underpowered.

The shop had the amp gain set at 60% of the dial and the bass boost at +12db (I have an external bass remote). They also had the LPF set at the 50hz minimum which I later found out was way off. I moved it to 80hz. Subsonic is at 18-20hz for reference.

I figured this set up would absolutely pound. My previous 4 8’s walk all over it, especially on the lower notes which I can’t understand.

Thanks for any help and I apologize for the long post!

Be careful of some of the advice the resident bot has given. it sometimes says things backwards.

Can you give a little bit more info, such as the port tuning frequency of your box, what impedance you have the subs wired for, what type of music you are listening to, what head unit you have?

Totally off-the-cuff, but it sounds like something is simply set up wrong in the install. With two 12s and a decent 1,000 watt amp, you should be able to hit hard enough to feel your hair buzz (though not come anywhere near doing hair tricks). This is without any bass boost enabled, or any EQ, just a straight gain.

 

[EricF]

Be careful of some of the advice the resident bot has given. it sometimes says things backwards.

Can you give a little bit more info, such as the port tuning frequency of your box, what impedance you have the subs wired for, what type of music you are listening to, what head unit you have?

Totally off-the-cuff, but it sounds like something is simply set up wrong in the install. With two 12s and a decent 1,000 watt amp, you should be able to hit hard enough to feel your hair buzz (though not come anywhere near doing hair tricks). This is without any bass boost enabled, or any EQ, just a straight gain.

Be careful of some of the advice the resident bot has given. it sometimes says things backwards.

Can you give a little bit more info, such as the port tuning frequency of your box, what impedance you have the subs wired for, what type of music you are listening to, what head unit you have?

Totally off-the-cuff, but it sounds like something is simply set up wrong in the install. With two 12s and a decent 1,000 watt amp, you should be able to hit hard enough to feel your hair buzz (though not come anywhere near doing hair tricks). This is without any bass boost enabled, or any EQ, just a straight gain.

They’re 4 ohm subs wired down to 1ohm. They don’t have the tuning frequency listed on Q powers website for the box. And it’s the Kenwood Excelon DMX709S head unit.

I listen to mostly hip/hop, rap and some dance music. I tried the classic bass song Put on by Young Jeezy and it doesn’t play the lows at all. I don’t see any weird amp settings unless there’s some setting in the head unit. But I agree, 2 12’s, ported box and 1000 watts @ 1ohm should really bang. Especially without having the bass boost at 12db and the gain a little past the halfway mark.

The amp picture is before I adjusted the LPF to 80hz btw.

 

[EricF]

They’re 4 ohm subs wired down to 1ohm. They don’t have the tuning frequency listed on Q powers website for the box. And it’s the Kenwood Excelon DMX709S head unit.

I listen to mostly hip/hop, rap and some dance music. I tried the classic bass song Put on by Young Jeezy and it doesn’t play the lows at all. I don’t see any weird amp settings unless there’s some setting in the head unit. But I agree, 2 12’s, ported box and 1000 watts @ 1ohm should really bang. Especially without having the bass boost at 12db and the gain a little past the halfway mark.

The amp picture is before I adjusted the LPF to 80hz btw.

I wonder if 4 gauge wire isn’t enough? I plan on getting a second opinion at another shop when I’m off work next week. To clarify, it does bang pretty good but I don’t think it should take 75% of the head units volume to get there.

Also, I have to take it back for them to look at the right door 6.5” because I think it blew already and I haven’t taken it past 75% volume. I’m no expert but I’m guessing it has something to do with it being a 110 watt rms speaker being fed 25 watts from the factory Bose amp.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

They’re 4 ohm subs wired down to 1ohm. They don’t have the tuning frequency listed on Q powers website for the box. And it’s the Kenwood Excelon DMX709S head unit.

I listen to mostly hip/hop, rap and some dance music. I tried the classic bass song Put on by Young Jeezy and it doesn’t play the lows at all. I don’t see any weird amp settings unless there’s some setting in the head unit. But I agree, 2 12’s, ported box and 1000 watts @ 1ohm should really bang. Especially without having the bass boost at 12db and the gain a little past the halfway mark.

The amp picture is before I adjusted the LPF to 80hz btw.

Try these things:
1. Disconnect the speaker wires form the amp. Assuming it's just two. Hold one wire to the the negative end of an AA battery. Very quickly tap the other wire to the positive end. Make sure both subs move in or out together when you do so. You'll hear a slight "thump" with each tap.
2. Set your amp gain to 100%, crossover to ~80Hx, bass boost to off, infrasonic ("subsonic") filter to off.
3. Go into your Kenwood settings, and check that all EQ is flat, crossover for sub output (if one exists) is set to as high as it will go, and sub output (if adjustable) is at around 90%

Play a track that has good bass, but not just a one-note drone, or a higher-pitched "false bass" (like 60Hz that makes smaller systems sound good). I'm not into rap/hip-hop/dance, but if you Google "best rap (hip-hip, dance, etc) song to evaluate subwoofer", you'll get some good suggestions.

Start with volume low, and increase slowly just until you start getting some solid bass fill. Then, dial it back down.
Let us know what happens, and we can go from there. Also, give us an idea of what your head unit software is capable of, regarding sub management.

4 gauge wire is fine, unless it's CCA, then 2 gauge would be recommended.

Edit: Any idea how those subs are wired? I'm now wondering if there may have been a goof in wiring and the dual voice coils aren't working in opposition on one or both subs (along with maybe being out of phase with each other).

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

Try these things:
1. Disconnect the speaker wires form the amp. Assuming it's just two. Hold one wire to the the negative end of an AA battery. Very quickly tap the other wire to the positive end. Make sure both subs move in or out together when you do so. You'll hear a slight "thump" with each tap.
2. Set your amp gain to 100%, crossover to ~80Hx, bass boost to off, infrasonic ("subsonic") filter to off.
3. Go into your Kenwood settings, and check that all EQ is flat, crossover for sub output (if one exists) is set to as high as it will go, and sub output (if adjustable) is at around 90%

Play a track that has good bass, but not just a one-note drone, or a higher-pitched "false bass" (like 60Hz that makes smaller systems sound good). I'm not into rap/hip-hop/dance, but if you Google "best rap (hip-hip, dance, etc) song to evaluate subwoofer", you'll get some good suggestions.

Start with volume low, and increase slowly just until you start getting some solid bass fill. Then, dial it back down.
Let us know what happens, and we can go from there. Also, give us an idea of what your head unit software is capable of, regarding sub management.

4 gauge wire is fine, unless it's CCA, then 2 gauge would be recommended.

Edit: Any idea how those subs are wired? I'm now wondering if there may have been a goof in wiring and the dual voice coils aren't working in opposition on one or both subs (along with maybe being out of phase with each other).

I was also thinking out of phase, too; it'll totally kill the bass output.

 

[EricF]

Try these things:
1. Disconnect the speaker wires form the amp. Assuming it's just two. Hold one wire to the the negative end of an AA battery. Very quickly tap the other wire to the positive end. Make sure both subs move in or out together when you do so. You'll hear a slight "thump" with each tap.
2. Set your amp gain to 100%, crossover to ~80Hx, bass boost to off, infrasonic ("subsonic") filter to off.
3. Go into your Kenwood settings, and check that all EQ is flat, crossover for sub output (if one exists) is set to as high as it will go, and sub output (if adjustable) is at around 90%

Play a track that has good bass, but not just a one-note drone, or a higher-pitched "false bass" (like 60Hz that makes smaller systems sound good). I'm not into rap/hip-hop/dance, but if you Google "best rap (hip-hip, dance, etc) song to evaluate subwoofer", you'll get some good suggestions.

Start with volume low, and increase slowly just until you start getting some solid bass fill. Then, dial it back down.
Let us know what happens, and we can go from there. Also, give us an idea of what your head unit software is capable of, regarding sub management.

4 gauge wire is fine, unless it's CCA, then 2 gauge would be recommended.

Edit: Any idea how those subs are wired? I'm now wondering if there may have been a goof in wiring and the dual voice coils aren't working in opposition on one or both subs (along with maybe being out of phase with each other).

Not 100% sure, they just wanted me to buy the 4ohm version of the subwoofer so they could wire them to 1ohm. If they're out of phase, wouldn't it be obvious by watching them move?

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

New Kenwood head unit? Ahhh The DMX 709S!! I have owned this head unit!!
Doors running off the factory BOSE amp? How so?

How did they connect that amp to the new Kenwood head unit? Are you sure the new head unit isn't powering the doors and they bypassed the BOSE amp? If so, I can see why the door speaker blew. High volume (into clipping) still low enough volume the sub amp isn't really pushing its power.

If the subwoofer amp is set up correctly it WILL pound those subs. GET AN AMP FOR THE DOORS ASAP. So they will keep up with the subs.... now... the subs...

It doesn't hurt to pull the subs and verify they are wired to 2ohm per sub - 1ohm at the amp. Have a multimeter? Measure the ohm load at the box's terminals.

Turn the sub amps crossover ALL the way up and the Subsonic OFF!!! Use the crossover in the Kenwood for the subwoofer output. 80hz is fine for a starting point. This IS an eXcelon you can usually max the head unit volume all the way without distortion through the RCA outputs. There is a 13 band EQ in most Kenwood head units as well as several sound shaping features. There IS a subwoofer level control in the Kenwood head unit. At volume 28 the RCA's are putting out way less than 2v If I recall. This would certainly explain low sub output.

Make sure the sub amp is connected to the sub out on the head unit.
Make sure (VERIFY) 1ohm at the amp (2ohms per sub) (4-4=2 + 4-4=2 --> =1ohm)
If the subs are set up correctly they should be pounding hard at near full volume on the head unit. At this point neither the BOSE amp or the Kenwood internal amp will be able to keep up and WILL BE OUTPUTTING DISTORTION to the door speakers, which is the #1 killer of speakers. (Clipping/Distortion)

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Not 100% sure, they just wanted me to buy the 4ohm version of the subwoofer so they could wire them to 1ohm. If they're out of phase, wouldn't it be obvious by watching them move?

Not necessarily. They could be wired out of phase with themselves. Or maybe just one is, but the other is not.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Humor us... put your sub level in the head unit at max and then see how it sounds at volume 28.

 

[EricF]

New Kenwood head unit? Ahhh The DMX 709S!! I have owned this head unit!!
Doors running off the factory BOSE amp? How so?

How did they connect that amp to the new Kenwood head unit? Are you sure the new head unit isn't powering the doors and they bypassed the BOSE amp? If so, I can see why the door speaker blew. High volume (into clipping) still low enough volume the sub amp isn't really pushing its power.

If the subwoofer amp is set up correctly it WILL pound those subs. GET AN AMP FOR THE DOORS ASAP. So they will keep up with the subs.... now... the subs...

It doesn't hurt to pull the subs and verify they are wired to 2ohm per sub - 1ohm at the amp. Have a multimeter? Measure the ohm load at the box's terminals.

Turn the sub amps crossover ALL the way up and the Subsonic OFF!!! Use the crossover in the Kenwood for the subwoofer output. 80hz is fine for a starting point. This IS an eXcelon you can usually max the head unit volume all the way without distortion through the RCA outputs. There is a 13 band EQ in most Kenwood head units as well as several sound shaping features. There IS a subwoofer level control in the Kenwood head unit. At volume 28 the RCA's are putting out way less than 2v If I recall. This would certainly explain low sub output.

Make sure the sub amp is connected to the sub out on the head unit.
Make sure (VERIFY) 1ohm at the amp (2ohms per sub) (4-4=2 + 4-4=2 --> =1ohm)
If the subs are set up correctly they should be pounding hard at near full volume on the head unit. At this point neither the BOSE amp or the Kenwood internal amp will be able to keep up and WILL BE OUTPUTTING DISTORTION to the door speakers, which is the #1 killer of speakers. (Clipping/Distortion)

Thanks for the big write up. I'm looking at the invoice now, it says these aftermarket 2ohm speakers are compatible with the factory Bose system so I'm not sure how it's wired. I haven't spent any time on the equalizer settings, but I know the Bass EXT is off and the SW level is at 0.

I just spent $5500 on this set up, I considered amping the door speakers, but they wanted another $1400. I figured I was going to be happy enough by just upgrading from the Bose speakers. But that speaker literally blew a week later. It's going back to the shop Friday and I hope they warranty that blown speaker.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Thanks for the big write up. I'm looking at the invoice now, it says these aftermarket 2ohm speakers are compatible with the factory Bose system so I'm not sure how it's wired. I haven't spent any time on the equalizer settings, but I know the Bass EXT is off and the SW level is at 0.

I just spent $5500 on this set up, I considered amping the door speakers, but they wanted another $1400. I figured I was going to be happy enough by just upgrading from the Bose speakers. But that speaker literally blew a week later. It's going back to the shop Friday and I hope they warranty that blown speaker.

I am curious why the subs aren't beating the tar out of you.