Back in the game

[mccar]

DSP is very powerful and can be had built into amps, built into the head unit, or outboard,

Yeah, trying to decide if I'm going amp or dedicated separate DSP. Some of those amps are "fancy". The $$$$ JL has a phone app to tune remotely I guess. That would make it easier than getting out the screwdriver to adjust the DSP, but wonder how much I'd really alter it once dialed in.

Less than optimum location typically and proper buildout of a spare tire well will be tedious and costly. Assuming your top priority is stealth you can certainly do a lot via brute force just cram something into too-small airspace and throw a ton of power at it,

Yeah, I forgot about sub placement and each car is different. Some do better down, forward or rear. I'm really not going to do ported though. I have ported subs for home audio and music. Recently got some sealed subs and I'm much happier with them with music. I know I'll be sacrificing output and low end, but I'm ok with that. Whatever I'd do, I want it symmetric in the trunk just for my visual appeal. I wouldn't want to do a side mount one.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies by the way from EVERYONE.

EDIT: also the dsp in my headunit is crap from the car. 3 adjustments, high, medium, low.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Yeah, trying to decide if I'm going amp or dedicated separate DSP. Some of those amps are "fancy".

Yes, as are the head units with a lot of processing power built in. The tradeoff is adding an extra piece of equipment to the signal chain if you chose to go outboard.

but wonder how much I'd really alter it once dialed in.

Ideally never if you aren't the type that's going to bug out and decide you have to try out every component speaker on the market to make sure it's "perfect".

I'm really not going to do ported though.

OK, but bear in mind most of the modern high power stuff is engineered to perform best in that alignment. Still some good stuff that will perform well sealed out there but you're narrowing down your options significantly and you'll need to pay attention to make sure you get something that will function correctly in sealed box.

 

[SlugButter]

Yeah, trying to decide if I'm going amp or dedicated separate DSP. Some of those amps are "fancy". The $$$$ JL has a phone app to tune remotely I guess. That would make it easier than getting out the screwdriver to adjust the DSP, but wonder how much I'd really alter it once dialed in.

Yeah, I forgot about sub placement and each car is different. Some do better down, forward or rear. I'm really not going to do ported though. I have ported subs for home audio and music. Recently got some sealed subs and I'm much happier with them with music. I know I'll be sacrificing output and low end, but I'm ok with that. Whatever I'd do, I want it symmetric in the trunk just for my visual appeal. I wouldn't want to do a side mount one.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies by the way from EVERYONE.

EDIT: also the dsp in my headunit is crap from the car. 3 adjustments, high, medium, low.

One of the better sealed subs I’ve played with in the last few years is the Dayton ultimax line of subs. The 8s sound excellent. I wish they would’ve kept the 8s at 500 watts rms like the 10,12 and 15, but they’re still super nice in sealed setups. I will listen to tech nine on one song and Billy Joel on the next. Nice clean transition from one genre of music to another genre. They extend nice and low in a sealed box without getting “boomy”. I’ve used the 8,10 and 12 so far and all 3 are good candidates for sealed setups.

 

[mccar]

pay attention to make sure you get something that will function correctly in sealed box.

Are you referring to:

Free Air Resonance (Fs)	30.12 Hz
Electrical “Q” (Qes)	0.543

In this example the Fs/Qes ratio is ~55 which is ideal for sealed right?

Dayton ultimax line of subs

Oh, those do look ideal. 31.6/.75 ~42 for the 8" Hmmmm, 3 of those sealed.....

 

[rovster]

I’m in the same boat. Played with car audio in high school and college fast forward 25 years and I have a new bad *** truck with a crappy system. I also like smooth highs and whereas before had a limited budget now it’s a little easier to get higher end stuff. I’m also looking to keep things stealthy and looking factory with good solid equipment. Not looking to rattle the doors off the car next to me either.

I do plan on going the DSP JL amp and running a stealth box for subs. The more I look into sound deadening the more I’m convincing myself it has to be done. I plan on starting with the doors and back seat of my pickup just cuz I’m going to be back there anyway and eventually move towards the front.

I also found out MB Quart went downhill which sucks because I was totally willing to pay for them now that I can afford it LOL. Looks like Focal is where it’s at for my taste so probably doing those. Good luck with everything it’s fun being addicted again

 

[SlugButter]

Are you referring to:

Free Air Resonance (Fs)	30.12 Hz
Electrical “Q” (Qes)	0.543

In this example the Fs/Qes ratio is ~55 which is ideal for sealed right?

Oh, those do look ideal. 31.6/.75 ~42 for the 8" Hmmmm, 3 of those sealed.....

My favorite one from the ultimax line is the 10 inch but the 8s are very good sounding. Probably the best sounding 8 I’ve ever used sealed, it just doesn’t have the power handling a lot of people want from a sub in car audio. I also used one in a home theater setup ported tuned to 24 HZ and holy crapola that little thing is pretty damn good. For music in car, I wouldn’t port it personally. Sealed is the way to go with these for bass/sq ft output. 2 of these sealed would sound so much better than a single ported would, and the box size would be relatively the same.

 

[mccar]

I’m in the same boat. Played with car audio in high school and college fast forward 25 years and I have a new bad *** truck with a crappy system. I also like smooth highs and whereas before had a limited budget now it’s a little easier to get higher end stuff. I’m also looking to keep things stealthy and looking factory with good solid equipment. Not looking to rattle the doors off the car next to me either.

I do plan on going the DSP JL amp and running a stealth box for subs. The more I look into sound deadening the more I’m convincing myself it has to be done. I plan on starting with the doors and back seat of my pickup just cuz I’m going to be back there anyway and eventually move towards the front.

I also found out MB Quart went downhill which ***** because I was totally willing to pay for them now that I can afford it LOL. Looks like Focal is where it’s at for my taste so probably doing those. Good luck with everything it’s fun being addicted again

Yeah, as a 16 year old I lusted after the allusive MBQ from the library at my high school in Car Audio magazine! That was my internet back in the day.

Sound deadening has always been a priority for me, and agree it is needed. I typically have driven pretty quiet cars (road noise wise) in my adult life except I had a Mazda Protege 5 after college that was the single loudest tin can car I ever drove. You had to yell at the passengers to be heard when going 70mph because of wind noise and the tin can effect of that cheap car. This little German GTI I'm getting is mostly quiet, but not enough compared to my last 2 cars. So that is what I plan on doing myself a lot over some weekends. Second skin and even some true road noise insulation (can't recall name but wrote it down on my work computer) on the floors and where I can on the door. I'll be adding weight, but plan to eventually stage 1 tune this anyway so, who cares.

My favorite one from the ultimax line is the 10 inch but the 8s are very good sounding. Probably the best sounding 8 I’ve ever used sealed, it just doesn’t have the power handling a lot of people want from a sub in car audio. I also used one in a home theater setup ported tuned to 24 HZ and holy crapola that little thing is pretty damn good. For music in car, I wouldn’t port it personally. Sealed is the way to go with these for bass/sq ft output. 2 of these sealed would sound so much better than a single ported would, and the box size would be relatively the same.

I like what you are saying!

So, from a SQ standpoint, which of these in a proper sealed cabinet sound the best in your imaginative mind?
3x 8" ultimax
2x 8" ultimax
1x 10" ultimax
1x 10" jl 6v3
2x 8" jl 8w7
edit: assume I'd get an appropriate RMS amp for each setup, maybe more on the ultimax, but run lower ohm load for future proofing if I keep this hobby going beyond install (which I really do like, just don't have a lot of free time - aka 2 kids)

I imagine the 8w7 or 6v3, but is it enough of a difference compared to those ultimax which I have never heard or seen in my life. I wonder if I can find someone near me to demo them for me. Take 'em out for a beer or something!

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

In this example the Fs/Qes ratio is ~55 which is ideal for sealed right?

There's some formula people used to use, but if I were to guess you'd want to look at Qts and Fs. I'd just throw everything into some modelling software and see for myself what response would look like in the airspace I am willing to sacrifice. Bear in mind if you're not listening to test tones, bass-test tracks or similar you're not missing anything below 35hz.

The nice thing about buying Dayton or the like on partsexpress is that there's a laundry list of good data and feedback in the reviews of users' results in various applications. JL should function reasonably well in factory recommended enclosures but I've found you typically want a bit more airspace than they suggest for best results.

The more I look into sound deadening the more I’m convincing myself it has to be done

If you don't mind investing the man hours it's a good investment up to probably the 300$ price point at which IMO you're going to hit some fierce diminishing returns.

 

[SlugButter]

Yeah, as a 16 year old I lusted after the allusive MBQ from the library at my high school in Car Audio magazine! That was my internet back in the day.

Sound deadening has always been a priority for me, and agree it is needed. I typically have driven pretty quiet cars (road noise wise) in my adult life except I had a Mazda Protege 5 after college that was the single loudest tin can car I ever drove. You had to yell at the passengers to be heard when going 70mph because of wind noise and the tin can effect of that cheap car. This little German GTI I'm getting is mostly quiet, but not enough compared to my last 2 cars. So that is what I plan on doing myself a lot over some weekends. Second skin and even some true road noise insulation (can't recall name but wrote it down on my work computer) on the floors and where I can on the door. I'll be adding weight, but plan to eventually stage 1 tune this anyway so, who cares.



I like what you are saying!

So, from a SQ standpoint, which of these in a proper sealed cabinet sound the best in your imaginative mind?
3x 8" ultimax
2x 8" ultimax
1x 10" ultimax
1x 10" jl 6v3
2x 8" jl 8w7
edit: assume I'd get an appropriate RMS amp for each setup, maybe more on the ultimax, but run lower ohm load for future proofing if I keep this hobby going beyond install (which I really do like, just don't have a lot of free time - aka 2 kids)

I imagine the 8w7 or 6v3, but is it enough of a difference compared to those ultimax which I have never heard or seen in my life. I wonder if I can find someone near me to demo them for me. Take 'em out for a beer or something!

That’s a super nice list kinda however you want to go. I don’t even know how to judge this honestly. 2 8W7s handle the most power and would sound good sealed. The price difference is huge between a dual 8 ultimax setup and dual 8w7 setup. If price were no option, W7 all the way.

 

[rovster]

If you don't mind investing the man hours it's a good investment up to probably the 300$ price point at which IMO you're going to hit some fierce diminishing returns.

Figured I’d be spending more than double that. Figure by the time I do inner and outer skin of the doors I’ll be me up there already. Would like to treat the floors with some MLV as well. I also have 2 very active kids so I don’t have a bunch of times but figured I’d go slow and do what I can. Will realistically take me a couple months or more. In the meantime I could always listen to my Turtlebox on the way to work while my stereo and car is in pieces

 

[mccar]

Dayton or the like on partsexpress is that there's a laundry list of good data and feedback in the reviews of users' results in various applications

Great point, they aren't out of there

If price were no option, W7 all the way.

Dream setup for me, just from what I recall when I was 22 and less. Dayton's aren't out of it for sure.

Thanks again all.

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

Yeah, trying to decide if I'm going amp or dedicated separate DSP. Some of those amps are "fancy". The $$$$ JL has a phone app to tune remotely I guess. That would make it easier than getting out the screwdriver to adjust the DSP, but wonder how much I'd really alter it once dialed in.

Yeah, I forgot about sub placement and each car is different. Some do better down, forward or rear. I'm really not going to do ported though. I have ported subs for home audio and music. Recently got some sealed subs and I'm much happier with them with music. I know I'll be sacrificing output and low end, but I'm ok with that. Whatever I'd do, I want it symmetric in the trunk just for my visual appeal. I wouldn't want to do a side mount one.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies by the way from EVERYONE.

EDIT: also the dsp in my headunit is crap from the car. 3 adjustments, high, medium, low.

No shame in still running an EQ/1/2 Din In dash Pe-amp EQ. tuning on the Fly!! It can even be placed inbetween the seats or just under the dash even. Tune any song at your finger tips and less of a PITA to go in the HU to change settings on any song.I like running one myself. call me Old school if youd like, but it sure is easier for me to reach over and turn a knob rather than go in and out of the HU

 

[Bass Addict 10+ year member]

No shame in still running an EQ/1/2 Din In dash Pe-amp EQ. tuning on the Fly!! It can even be placed inbetween the seats or just under the dash even. Tune any song at your finger tips and less of a PITA to go in the HU to change settings on any song.I like running one myself. call me Old school if youd like, but it sure is easier for me to reach over and turn a knob rather than go in and out of the HU

Love em myself as well.makes the tunes sound so much better !

 

[mccar]

Man, I want to say, I'm incredibly frustrated and at the same time having an incredibly good time. Kinda feel like a teen again.

The case where I have to use the OEM headunit. I've spent a lot of time researching and think I'm close. Going to take some harnesses from Ali Express and some splitting but I "think" it will work. Along with an old mapping picture I found of the "brown" block, I think I'll have my left/right forward/rear knocked out. I now know what LOC's are. (yeah, I'm that basic). Never used them back in the day, just good old RCA outs. I mean, how much cost would it add to have car makers just do RCA's? Oh well, that would be too easy.

So, I'm chasing my teenage dream of my JL 3 ohm 8's. Doesn't seem like they have DVC 3ohms anymore. Kinda makes the SVC 3ohms hard to deal with (not impossible). I know there are options, but challenges there as well. I want matching amps and the ideal state, doesn't give me matching amps. Oh well, more research.

So, I'm at here as of now.

Get that Ali Express harness, rip out the brown 8 way block (left front, right front, left rear, right great) and either
a. LOC and/or DSP and feed it to two dumb amps or
b. get a DSP Amp and have that DSP Amp feed a dumb sub amp.

Leaning towards a for the matching amps.

Then deciding if I have the patience and time (and money) for a 3way front stage).

Thanks again all, you have been super helpful!!!!!

EDIT: Oh yeah, a challenge I still have is a damn center speaker channel from the OEM head unit I can't track down at all. Don't know where it is coming from and how (or if) I can turn it off without affecting the other components in the car.

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

Man, I want to say, I'm incredibly frustrated and at the same time having an incredibly good time. Kinda feel like a teen again.

The case where I have to use the OEM headunit. I've spent a lot of time researching and think I'm close. Going to take some harnesses from Ali Express and some splitting but I "think" it will work. Along with an old mapping picture I found of the "brown" block, I think I'll have my left/right forward/rear knocked out. I now know what LOC's are. (yeah, I'm that basic). Never used them back in the day, just good old RCA outs. I mean, how much cost would it add to have car makers just do RCA's? Oh well, that would be too easy.

So, I'm chasing my teenage dream of my JL 3 ohm 8's. Doesn't seem like they have DVC 3ohms anymore. Kinda makes the SVC 3ohms hard to deal with (not impossible). I know there are options, but challenges there as well. I want matching amps and the ideal state, doesn't give me matching amps. Oh well, more research.

So, I'm at here as of now.

Get that Ali Express harness, rip out the brown 8 way block (left front, right front, left rear, right great) and either
a. LOC and/or DSP and feed it to two dumb amps or
b. get a DSP Amp and have that DSP Amp feed a dumb sub amp.

Leaning towards a for the matching amps.

Then deciding if I have the patience and time (and money) for a 3way front stage).

Thanks again all, you have been super helpful!!!!!

EDIT: Oh yeah, a challenge I still have is a damn center speaker channel from the OEM head unit I can't track down at all. Don't know where it is coming from and how (or if) I can turn it off without affecting the other components in the car.

Some gear I picked up and using for a while and enjoying, as I still havent taken the time to get the new CT EQ in due to time and rainy weather

CT-150.4D // 1000 Watts RMS 4-Channel Car Amplifier

The CT Sounds CT-150.4D is a compact full-range class d 4 channel car amplifier. The multi-channel amplifier features a Low Pass Filter (LPF), High Pass Filter (HPF), and Bass Boost so you can get the exact sound you are looking for out of your amplifier.

www.ctsounds.com

CT-2000.1D // 2000 Watts RMS Monoblock Car Amplifier

The CT Sounds CT-2000.1D is a compact 2000 watt class d monoblock car subwoofer amplifier. The 1-ohm stable mono amp features a Low Pass Filter (LPF), Subsonic Filter, and Bass Boost so you can get the exact sound you are looking for out of your amplifier.

www.ctsounds.com

Have two of these to try to Strap later on. running one for now. The EQ I havent put in yet as Ive removed alot of my old set up with a Kicker KQ9 Eq and my Eclipse HU.

CT-7EQ // 7-Band 1/2 DIN Car Audio Equalizer with AUX Input

The CT Sounds CT-7EQ is a 7 band 1/2 din parametric car audio equalizer designed to divide and enhance the segment of frequency for your car audio application. The car audio equalizer features 7 bands that divide 20Hz - 20kHz into 7 segments.

www.ctsounds.com

Looks like they carry an LOC also. I havent tried one, but look promising and idiot proof

CT-LC2 // 2-Channel Premium Line-Out Converter with BassLift

The CT-LC2 is a 2-channel line-out converter with BassLift technology that allows you to use your stock radio as the signal source for your aftermarket amplifier(s). The premium LOC converts the high-level signal used to play factory speakers into a low-level RCA input to send to the amplifier(s).

www.ctsounds.com

Ill more than likely pick one of these up when they come back in stock

AT Series Stock Bass Knob with Digital Voltmeter (Pushable ON/OFF for Amp)

The AT-KNOB is a dash-mount factory replacement bass knob compatible with CT Sounds AT Series Amplifiers. The car amplifier bass knob features a rotary remote gain control knob, LED clip light indicator, built-in voltmeter, and a pushable on/off switch.

www.ctsounds.com

Ive heard good experiences from these 8" subs and have heard and seen

TROPO-8 // 400 Watts RMS 8 Inch Car Subwoofer

The CT Sounds TROPO-8 is an 8-inch car subwoofer capable of reaching 800-watt max power. Available in dual 2-ohm and dual 4-ohm coil configurations.

www.ctsounds.com

Ampere Audio 2.5 RVE 8" 800w RMS Subwoofer

Shop Ampere Audio-2.5 RVE 8" 800w RMS Subwoofer at the Guaranteed lowest allowed price of 199 with 20+ yrs of the best customer service, only at the SSA STORE

store.soundsolutionsaudio.com