Wiring Headunit RCA's - Running extra RCA but leaving unhooked?

[Chromatic]

This is the back of the Pioneer AVH-P4100DVD headunit I have,..

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/PUSA/Images/AVH-P4100DVD_rear_lrg.jpg

It's hard to make out.. but I believe on the left RCA outs are Front, Rear, and Sub. So those are the ones I'll be running 3 separate RCA cables for.

I will be starting with just front components a sub, and Amp to run them all.

Few questions.

1) Can I go ahead and run the Rear (Rear output from Headunit) [Along with the Front RCA's and Sub RCA's that WILL be hooked into amp] RCA cable back to the amp area (but leave it unhooked from amp).. so in the future when I may put in rear 6.5" speakers it makes the job a lot easier? Or will running RCA's from headunit , and not hooked into amp cause some sort of noise in the system?

2) Currently the factory speakers are wired into the headunit.. Do I have to "unwire" anything on the back of the headunit? Or can I Just run the RCA's.. and tap into the blue remote wire.. and run RCA's and remote to amp.. then I'll be running new Speaker wire from amp to new speakers, of course the old wiring will be left unhooked. -- Again will this create any issues? Or do I need to cut wires on the back of the headunit where it feeds the old speaker wire?

I would logically think the headunit would pick up the RCA's being used by the amp and somehow turn "off" it's output to the normal "old" speaker wires I'll simply be unhooking? This so?

And just curious about wire spacing.

Can power wire and your speaker wire be next to each other. Because I'm sort of running out of space designing this in my head.. I was thinking to run RCA's down middle console,.. Run power wire down passenger side (and the passenger side speaker wire to that speaker next to it). Then run the Driver side speaker wire down the driver side edge (this would of course just be the speaker wire as the Power cable will be down the passenger side.)

This a typical way to run your wiring?

Thanks guys,

Click to read more...

 

[tniemuth95]

Unfortunately I can only help you with your last question. Although I'm also curious about the RCAs because I will be attempting the same thing in a few days, if no one answers it I'll let you know how mine turned out.

As far as running a speaker wire next to your power wire that's a pretty awful idea. Speaker wire has no shielding and will pick up static super easy. Assuming you have a shielded RCA cable, which you should if you don't have one yet, you can run RCAs and speaker wire together no problem. But try to keep that power cable as far as possible from you RCAs and even farther from your speaker wire. They'll have to overlap eventually, so make sure it's at a right angle if possible, with as much space between them as you can. Hope this helps!

 

[thatguy12 10+ year member]

1st question- why not just run the rcas so they are by the amp, but dont hook them up to the head unit. zip tie the unused pairs on something behind the headunit. that way you would only have to take out the head unit, instead of the head unit and all the panels.

second question- most head units you can turn the head unit amp off, check your manual.

 

[Chromatic]

1st question- why not just run the rcas so they are by the amp, but dont hook them up to the head unit. zip tie the unused pairs on something behind the headunit. that way you would only have to take out the head unit, instead of the head unit and all the panels.second question- most head units you can turn the head unit amp off, check your manual.

This is why I asked,.. to see if anyone knew. I can of course not hook the RCA's to the back of the headunit,.. that's why I asked. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

So RCA's hooked to headunit, but not to amp are going to cause problems/noise in the system,.. gotcha. Thanks!

 

[Chromatic]

Unfortunately I can only help you with your last question. Although I'm also curious about the RCAs because I will be attempting the same thing in a few days, if no one answers it I'll let you know how mine turned out.

Thanks!

As far as running a speaker wire next to your power wire that's a pretty awful idea. Speaker wire has no shielding and will pick up static super easy. Assuming you have a shielded RCA cable, which you should if you don't have one yet, you can run RCAs and speaker wire together no problem. But try to keep that power cable as far as possible from you RCAs and even farther from your speaker wire. They'll have to overlap eventually, so make sure it's at a right angle if possible, with as much space between them as you can. Hope this helps!

Hrmm.. That stinks. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif -- It's what tons of people recommended I do for the car.. as it's how they ran it. They said to just keep the Power cable and RCA's separated.. which is what I'll do because the logical run of RCA's is down the middle of the car anyways.

The battery is on the left back side of the engine.. and the grommet to enter the vehicle is on the very back left side of the engine firewall (passenger side).. So the power wire is coming in that area. Everyone else ran their power wire down the left hand passenger side, and their speaker wire down next to it as well for the left/passenger door with this car I've spoken to. They ran the RCA's down the middle, and the Driver speaker wire down the driver side.

So,.. power wire can't be by any speaker wire. That's a bummer.

So power wire is going to come in the left kick panel.. so I'll have to figure out somewhere else to run it. Wires are going to be on passenger edge, driver edge, and the center of the car. So I'll have to figure out how to fish the power wire under the middle of the carpet? Won't that leave a lump from the huge gauge power cable (under the carpet) ? There's really no other place to put it.. except in the few feet between the speaker wire along the edge by doors, and the RCA's that will be going down center console area.

How do all these other people run that power cable down the passenger side, and the passenger speaker wire next to it and not have noise in their system?

I'm going to do it right the first time,.. just now have to figure out where to run the power cable.

Where should I route it? How far from each other do the cables need to be to *not* interfere? And lastly.. is it possible to get *shielded* speaker wire so I could run (at least the speaker wire) run to the passenger door speaker next to the power cable?

Thanks for the info.

 

[tniemuth95]

What I did, and what most people do, or should do, is run the power cable down the passenger side floor underneath the plastic door skuff plate (it unscrews and can fit a hefty cable underneath it). Then you run your speaker cable down the driver side. From here you route your right speaker cable across the dash, either through it, or zip tie it underneath it, across the car into your other door. This way your speaker cable and power cable are hopefully no closer than a foot if you run your power cable through the floor, and your speaker cable through the dash. And the place they do cross, is at a right angle so there is as little noise as possible. Hopefully that helps.

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

Just run your power wire separate, run everything else elsewhere..... You'll figure it out when you start installing. Run under carpet...

And yes, i would cut the high level speaker wire behind the head unit, tape them, and move them out the way.

Go ahead and run your rca to the back, you can leave them unhooked from the amp, make sure you wrap then in electrical tape, those wires touch ground or anything else, your liable to cause damage.

 

[Chromatic]

Ok, seems pretty evident I need the power wire (Probably going 4 gauge.. as I'm running no more than 540watts RMS total ) to be by itself. I was intending on running it under the kick plate, or whatever you want to call it that comes up that holds the edge of the carpet down by the doors (on the passenger side). I *could* probably figure out how to run the power wire down the center console.. ie: Run the RCA's on one side of the console , and the power wire on the other side.

But if it gets tight in there.. there are only so many options without just ripping the carpet all the way up -- what kind of space (inches/feet) does the power wire need to be away from the speaker wire? IE: Does a foot apart work? Half a foot? 2 feet? etc.. The power wire is going to come into similar space as the speaker wire at some point.. maybe two points.. even run separate paths.. as they obviously go into the amp. So if an amp that is 8-9inches long has a power wire on one side and speaker on the other side,.. it makes me think that a solid foot space between power wire and speaker wire is sufficient?

As for RCA's.. just for safety I'll just run it and leave it unhooked at both ends and taped. Not a huge deal pulling the headunit. And, thanks for the clarification on existing speaker wire. I'll figure out what's what back there (no idea how it's wired up on this headunit (could be some DIY'er who didn't know what they were doing.. or be in a nice purpose made adapter.. either way won't matter to me much as I'll just be making use of the remote wire.) -- I'll cut the speaker wire, cut it clean where sheath is still around it, and tape it as well.

Found out today that for whatever reason the rear factory speakers aren't even getting a signal.. so whoever put this headunit in didn't bother to feed the rear speakers.. might be a bit of a cleanup job back there.

Seems like one of the most difficult parts of this is going to be getting the speaker wire from the amp and up the sides and into the factory "tube?" that goes from quarter panel to door. If anyone has any tips to make this part "easy" -- please share. Running the wires with the seats out doesn't seem to be too bad ,.. I can take my time running , zip tieing.. and so forth with all the seats out, all panels off, center console out, etc.

 

[calebkhill 10+ year member]

Ok, seems pretty evident I need the power wire (Probably going 4 gauge.. as I'm running no more than 540watts RMS total ) to be by itself. I was intending on running it under the kick plate, or whatever you want to call it that comes up that holds the edge of the carpet down by the doors (on the passenger side). I *could* probably figure out how to run the power wire down the center console.. ie: Run the RCA's on one side of the console , and the power wire on the other side.
But if it gets tight in there.. there are only so many options without just ripping the carpet all the way up -- what kind of space (inches/feet) does the power wire need to be away from the speaker wire? IE: Does a foot apart work? Half a foot? 2 feet? etc.. The power wire is going to come into similar space as the speaker wire at some point.. maybe two points.. even run separate paths.. as they obviously go into the amp. So if an amp that is 8-9inches long has a power wire on one side and speaker on the other side,.. it makes me think that a solid foot space between power wire and speaker wire is sufficient?

As for RCA's.. just for safety I'll just run it and leave it unhooked at both ends and taped. Not a huge deal pulling the headunit. And, thanks for the clarification on existing speaker wire. I'll figure out what's what back there (no idea how it's wired up on this headunit (could be some DIY'er who didn't know what they were doing.. or be in a nice purpose made adapter.. either way won't matter to me much as I'll just be making use of the remote wire.) -- I'll cut the speaker wire, cut it clean where sheath is still around it, and tape it as well.

Found out today that for whatever reason the rear factory speakers aren't even getting a signal.. so whoever put this headunit in didn't bother to feed the rear speakers.. might be a bit of a cleanup job back there.

Seems like one of the most difficult parts of this is going to be getting the speaker wire from the amp and up the sides and into the factory "tube?" that goes from quarter panel to door. If anyone has any tips to make this part "easy" -- please share. Running the wires with the seats out doesn't seem to be too bad ,.. I can take my time running , zip tieing.. and so forth with all the seats out, all panels off, center console out, etc.

Excuse the mess

 

[Chromatic]

Hella excellent photos. THAT'S the kind of stuff I need to see. A picture is worth a thousand words.. if that were my car it'd be absolutely perfect,.. but still that's how I learn stuff quickly.. seeing the guts ripped out and how it's run. Thanks.

I see you actually have your power wire and speaker wires close for a foot or more.. That wiring path is similar to what I'll do,.. Except you had all the carpet ripped out.

No Carpet that wiring is simple to do //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif -- I'm used to wiring in less than 8 inches of space on computers. Thing is.. While taking the panels off under the doors will let the carpet pull back a few inches to run down that area.. the carpet doesn't just pull up like that in my car. If I pull the carpet like that,.. I have to remove what's holding it down (not panels) -- bolts, industrial staples, adhesive, etc. This is why I was talking about what I'm going to be exposed to when I get the car apart.. Middle part of carpet isn't moving,.. I can get to the flaps around center console,.. the sides by the doors.. and that's about it.

So, I guess again.. let me ask :

My entrance for the power wire will be exactly the opposite of those photos.. on the passenger side. So I am going to run the power cable down that side parallel to the doors onward.. Then it makes an L to the right and I'll run it behind the pass. seat and up into the area behind the seat (Called a glove box.. makes me ask why as well.. as I've never seen a glove box be behind a seat (it's just a compartment really).. ) In this Compartment behind pass. seat will house the amp.

Now,.. given what you guys have told me , no speaker wires next to power wire run -- I need an alternative.

So question:

Can I run the pass. side speaker wire down the center console on the pass side of the console,.. then I guess hook it right near the kick panel and route it up through the door "tube" thingy? While running the RCA's on the Driver side of the center console? Will this split be enough between the RCA's and speaker wire to prevent noise? (One on Right side of center console, other on Left side of Center console.)

Second Question: Any tips on how I get the speaker wire up and into that rubber tube that goes from front quarter panel to the door (where ALL the other electrical wires are run so they don't get squished by the closing door?) From the looks of it, that's in a spot under the dash, and you are basically blind trying to do it? I'm sure there are some tricks to doing this to make it a fairly simple and quick deal .. once I get the wires into it and poking out the side of the door .. I'm good.

Thanks

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

it is a common myth that you will induce noise when running speaker wire next to power wire. that's not the case. the reason is that the signal in the speaker wire is already amplified. the concern with RCA's is that any noise induced will be amplified later. there is no concern with speaker wire next to power wire. for ease, you can run power, remote, and driver's side speaker wire down the driver's side. then RCA and passenger speaker wire down the passenger side. that works fine every time and you won't hear a difference. you can also run RCA's next to power wire and in most cases be just fine - because the RCA should be a twisted pair with a shield or drain. The times where it appeared to be a problem, poor grounding was to blame and not proximity of cables. if moving the cables reduces noise - the problem is grounding.

your question about leaving an RCA connected on one end is a good one. don't do that. the reason is that it will act as an antenna and can introduce noise into the shields - which are shared with the RCA's you will use. then that noise will be amplified. If I had to do something similar, i would connect the other end into a floating RCA jack pair, isolate the center pin, and ground the shields. If you can land them on the amp, do so. if neither, leave them disconnected at both ends.

removing the carpeting isn't hard and it is a nice way to lay out cables. i can pull the carpet in my car in under 45 minutes. it helps to have a Honda or Toyota as they are very easy to disassemble and reassemble. i show that process in detail in the build logs in my sig.

you can separate cables by whatever distance you want. the entire car is a ground plane and full of noise anyway.

 

[CrossoverOre 10+ year member]

the tube thingy is commonly refered to as a door boot. I mostly sped read the narrative above but I didnt see a year make and model of what we are talking about. Sometimes with door boots there will be a molex plug and sometimes not. If you do have a molex then you will have to find empty pins and drill through the plug in order to get the wire through. If no plug then just feed the wire through the boot a viola.

 

[Chromatic]

it is a common myth that you will induce noise when running speaker wire next to power wire. that's not the case. the reason is that the signal in the speaker wire is already amplified. the concern with RCA's is that any noise induced will be amplified later. there is no concern with speaker wire next to power wire. for ease, you can run power, remote, and driver's side speaker wire down the driver's side. then RCA and passenger speaker wire down the passenger side. that works fine every time and you won't hear a difference. you can also run RCA's next to power wire and in most cases be just fine - because the RCA should be a twisted pair with a shield or drain. The times where it appeared to be a problem, poor grounding was to blame and not proximity of cables. if moving the cables reduces noise - the problem is grounding.

Well, this certainly makes things work as I initially planned. Since my battery and such are on the passenger side.. The power wire will come in the passenger side.. So I can do what I initially planned.. Run power wire and passenger speaker wire down left side. Run RCA's (and remote wire) down middle of car under/next to console,.. and run Driver's side speaker wire down driver side edge merely because that's the easiest route. Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering how so many people had installed with speaker wire next to their power wire and had no issues.

your question about leaving an RCA connected on one end is a good one. don't do that. the reason is that it will act as an antenna and can introduce noise into the shields - which are shared with the RCA's you will use. then that noise will be amplified. If I had to do something similar, i would connect the other end into a floating RCA jack pair, isolate the center pin, and ground the shields. If you can land them on the amp, do so. if neither, leave them disconnected at both ends.

I'll just leave both ends of the RCA unhooked,.. and tape them in electrical tape.. that should keep them lightly shielded even if unhooked.. I'll also probably zip tie them away from other wires as best as possible behind the headunit, and won't put them near the amp or other wires.. just have them tucked somewhere near the rear wall behind the seats under edge of a panel or something (again taped).. but in a spot where should I decide to grab another amp and run 6.5" coaxials in the rear factory locations I'll have an easy time of it.. will just have to probably pull the panels behind seats and can either link amp to amp via RCA (if the amp supports it),.. or split the remote wire and power wire for the 2 channel amp. That's down the road, not concerned, was just going to run the rear RCA's to save having to pull seats, center console etc if I ever wanted to put rear speakers in.

removing the carpeting isn't hard and it is a nice way to lay out cables. i can pull the carpet in my car in under 45 minutes. it helps to have a Honda or Toyota as they are very easy to disassemble and reassemble. i show that process in detail in the build logs in my sig.

I'll check it out.

The way the wiring is on this car.. with the edges of carpet coming up easily when you remove the panels under the door (whatever they are called).. opens a factory wiring layout with clips that run all the way down the side of the car on both sides. Great locations for these wires,.. as it's built into the car like this for the premium factory bose system that has a Sub and amp,.. mine doesn't have that system, but the wiring layout clips are still there for me to use.

you can separate cables by whatever distance you want. the entire car is a ground plane and full of noise anyway.

True. You mentioning that it's a myth that you can't run speaker wire next to your power wire is all the info I really needed to be honest. The wiring layout being able to run the passenger speaker wire next to the power wire is what I originally proposed in my first post in this thread as you saw, .. or can look at.

Thanks.

 

[Chromatic]

the tube thingy is commonly refered to as a door boot. I mostly sped read the narrative above but I didnt see a year make and model of what we are talking about. Sometimes with door boots there will be a molex plug and sometimes not. If you do have a molex then you will have to find empty pins and drill through the plug in order to get the wire through. If no plug then just feed the wire through the boot a viola.

Thanks for the proper "terminology" ..

But it's a 2008 Nissan 350Z.

I *think* it has a plastic Molex ,.. and drilling is necessary. I'm just curious how you blindly push speaker wire from under the dash through it basically.. Cause wire is flimsy and just pushing it in that general direction to the "door boot" will not just magically line up and come out of the hole drilled or not.. So any tips on getting it from under dash area and through the door boot in a quick manner would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

to deal with the boot you remove it then run wire through.

as for pulling new wire through the door of a 1998-2002 Accord - see below

locate the single wire harness that feeds the passenger door

remove the harness. at this point you can pull it all the way out the factory opening, or just far enough to gain access for wire routing

keep track of it's location and orientation

pry the rubber boot from both bottom and top - pull the wire from the top enough to gain access to the cabin side of the rubber boot

route a metal rod through the wire bundle - make sure it is not sharp or it could compromise the wiring. you may need to make a slit in the rubber boot - the part that is inside the cabin

tape speaker wire to one side and pull it through - this is CL2 rated 12/2 wire

now you can feed the wire through the openings into the door and cabin. inside the door - use zip ties to secure the speaker wire to factory wire loom so it doesn't interfere with the window track. inside the cabin, route the wire so it is hidden in the dash - securing it to factory split loom every 12" or so.

make sure the rubber boots are fully seated - start on the back side and use a flat screwdriver to push in the rest. plug in the wire harness.

here are some more pictures:

Installing door speakers and sound deadening and more - Honda Accord Forum - Honda Accord Enthusiast Forums