Wire size argument

[McIntosh 10+ year member]

He does have a point on that.
10 watts could provide reference SPL levels, provided the transducer was efficient enough (in a car, pretty much limited to HLCDs). At home, even less power is needed. I've heard setups where a half watt of power was enough to be uncomfortable in the room.

Saying 3kW is a "start", as someone else did, just shows that amplifier power is getting cheaper than common sense. Doesn't take more than a couple minutes of scrolling through the "why did my sub blow up" threads to see that //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Well put. If your drivers are relatively efficient (100dB/watt or more) you really don't need that much power. "I survive 16000 watts" means your drivers **** (power and in general). Set a pair of Klipschorns and a 50 watt amp in your backseat. Your ears WILL bleed.

 

[McIntosh 10+ year member]

Did you also know that AC doesn't matter when dealing with DC?

What the hell does that mean? The theory is exactly the same. The only difference is impedance (a combination of inductive and capacitive reactance) versus pure resistance. The same rules apply. AC is certainly a bit more "tricky" with harmonics and such but if one understands AC, DC is a no-brainer. One learns DC theory before AC theory because of this. An amp is a coulomb/second whether its AC or DC. Stick to restocking the shelves at WalMart and stop giving out electrical advice.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Stick to restocking the shelves at WalMart and stop giving out electrical advice.

Oh man, the insults from a man running 3-way towers in the back of a Blazer just burn so badly...ouch. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif:laugh://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[McIntosh 10+ year member]

your wisdom is flawed and your table applies to ac only. building codes no longer have any relevance to direct current as Tesla has taken over:fyi: you should probably switch your house over to ac old-timer.

AC or DC doesn't matter. Amps are amps are amps. As a matter of fact the conductor property tables list resistance/foot as DC values. Imagine that. That's because AC computations get a little complex, so they kept it simple. Additional calculations are required for some AC loads, DC loads are as simple as they get. The tables most certainly don't apply to AC only. Tesla has taken over? He specialized in AC (over Einstein's objections) my young uninformed friend. Tesla coils don't work too well on DC. Google, learn, then post.

 

[McIntosh 10+ year member]

Oh man, the insults from a man running 3-way towers in the back of a Blazer just burn so badly...ouch. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif:laugh://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

If you only had a brain....

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Well put. If your drivers are relatively efficient (100dB/watt or more) you really don't need that much power. "I survive 16000 watts" means your drivers **** (power and in general). Set a pair of Klipschorns and a 50 watt amp in your backseat. Your ears WILL bleed.

Produce 140db+ below 40hz with a 50 watt amp and I'll be impressed. Sensitive speakers are no new deal for anyone on here. We get that home audio is filled with very high sensitivity drivers(like you stated, 100db at 1w/1m is not uncommon). That's just not how car audio works. We don't have the room for a tapered horn box for our subs, nor do we have room for waveguides/horns for our tweets(in most cases).

Just try and move the kind of air that you see in the high powered setups with the kind of speakers you home audio guys normally use. And when you do strive for authoritative bass in an ebs type of alignment, most of them run to 18" subs and 1000's of watts(from what I've seen).

 

[kodak314 10+ year member]

I'm glad you work for what you're worth. I get a measly $38 an hour plus benefits. I'm an electrician in the IBEW. I wouldn't get out of bed for $47/ hour. Have a nice day.

what local?

 

[McIntosh 10+ year member]

Produce 140db+ below 40hz with a 50 watt amp and I'll be impressed. Sensitive speakers are no new deal for anyone on here. We get that home audio is filled with very high sensitivity drivers(like you stated, 100db at 1w/1m is not uncommon). That's just not how car audio works. We don't have the room for a tapered horn box for our subs, nor do we have room for waveguides/horns for our tweets(in most cases).
Just try and move the kind of air that you see in the high powered setups with the kind of speakers you home audio guys normally use. And when you do strive for authoritative bass in an ebs type of alignment, most of them run to 18" subs and 1000's of watts(from what I've seen).

Valid points, I suppose. Why would you want 140+dB? You certainly can't listen to it (from inside). You get into the 120's and you're looking at permanent hearing damage within a few minutes. To each their own, I guess. BTW my speakers I would classify as large bookshelves, not towers. They fit snugly across my tailgate in a full sized truck and sound quite good. Ported 3 ways in an actual enclosure. Do they move lots of air, nope. Just 8" woofs. They sound good and are louder than any mortal would ever need in their car. Do they have the punch my 100dB/w home speakers do with 300W of Mc power? Of course not. Do I use more than 5 watts at home very often? No. I have been known to utilize the powerguard lights from time to time. The dog, wife and guests vacate the room immediately. Its painfully loud. To the poster who said 200 watts could only tickle and couldn't possibly hurt, come visit me. You'll leave a deaf, better educated man.

 

[McIntosh 10+ year member]

what local?

176

 

[Pioneer~Saturn 5,000+ posts]

Valid points, I suppose. Why would you want 140+dB? You certainly can't listen to it (from inside). You get into the 120's and you're looking at permanent hearing damage within a few minutes. To each their own, I guess. BTW my speakers I would classify as large bookshelves, not towers. They fit snugly across my tailgate in a full sized truck and sound quite good. Ported 3 ways in an actual enclosure. Do they move lots of air, nope. Just 8" woofs. They sound good and are louder than any mortal would ever need in their car. Do they have the punch my 100dB/w home speakers do with 300W of Mc power? Of course not. Do I use more than 5 watts at home very often? No. I have been known to utilize the powerguard lights from time to time. The dog, wife and guests vacate the room immediately. Its painfully loud. To the poster who said 200 watts could only tickle and couldn't possibly hurt, come visit me. You'll leave a deaf, better educated man.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif...

 

[McIntosh 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif...

Sheer genius.

 

[TNTR70 10+ year member]

Valid points, I suppose. Why would you want 140+dB? You certainly can't listen to it (from inside). You get into the 120's and you're looking at permanent hearing damage within a few minutes. To each their own, I guess. BTW my speakers I would classify as large bookshelves, not towers. They fit snugly across my tailgate in a full sized truck and sound quite good. Ported 3 ways in an actual enclosure. Do they move lots of air, nope. Just 8" woofs. They sound good and are louder than any mortal would ever need in their car. Do they have the punch my 100dB/w home speakers do with 300W of Mc power? Of course not. Do I use more than 5 watts at home very often? No. I have been known to utilize the powerguard lights from time to time. The dog, wife and guests vacate the room immediately. Its painfully loud. To the poster who said 200 watts could only tickle and couldn't possibly hurt, come visit me. You'll leave a deaf, better educated man.

there's a huge difference in listening to mids and highs on 100 watts then there is listening to subwoofers on 1000 watts in a vehicle at say 140 db. much less hearing damage done with bass then with treble. if higher frequencies were soooo much "louder" than bass then people in car audio would be putting in only tweeters in their cars

 

[McIntosh 10+ year member]

lol in no way would 200w cause pain. a tingle if your lucky. im an old school audio fan for sure but seriously that statement is retarted. im going to run mu us amp 400x on my subs, mtx thunder 304 for mids, mtx thunder 102 for tweets. all oldschool and very underrated equipment. my 4 ohm rating for all three amps is right at 600w.
400x requires 225 amp fuse

304 fused at 75 amps

102 fused at 20 amps

you do the math.

oh and......album side:hilariou:

Come visit me, son. I'll tingle your ass to deafness. An hour in the same room with my stereo cranked will cause certain tinnitus. Not a pleasant thing to deal with (forever). Make an appointment for permanent hearing loss. Old school my ass. Put your "money" where your mouth is. I would personally not recommend taking me up on this offer. My 2, 4, 8 ohm (who cares) rating is 250 Watts/ch. Its probably a tad more but who cares when we're just tingling? McIntosh tends to underrate their stuff a bit. Okay maybe a lot. PM me. Otherwise STFU and install that crap you listed. Album side, why bother.

 

[McIntosh 10+ year member]

there's a huge difference in listening to mids and highs on 100 watts then there is listening to subwoofers on 1000 watts in a vehicle at say 140 db. much less hearing damage done with bass then with treble. if higher frequencies were soooo much "louder" than bass then people in car audio would be putting in only tweeters in their cars

Another good point. Naturally bass requires more power. We're moving more air, more excursion, etc. Woofers require more power than mids or tweets. Its physics plain and simple. What about the original recording? Are we at all interested in reproducing that? It likely didn't have "thundering" bass (nor any overly emphasized bass). It was meant to sound "realistic" for lack of a better term. True to the live performance. As if you were there. I'm sure this relates to SQ versus SPL. SPL is just a number without quality. Three fish that taste like **** are worth less than one fish that tastes good, IMHO.

 

[DePratt 10+ year member]

Ya 300 ampsx12V=3600W. Even at 60% efficiency=2160 Watts output. I have 600W in a 12'X25'X8' room and there's no way anyone could stand an album side with it cranked. Your ears would ring for days (or forever). 200W in my K-5 Blazer will also cause pain. Either these people have grossly inefficient speakers or their amp's ratings are, well "new school" Best Buy watts. Put an ammeter on that POS and see what it really draws. There was a time when 746 watts equalled a horsepower.

). Set a pair of Klipschorns and a 50 watt amp in your backseat. Your ears WILL bleed.

Valid points, I suppose. Why would you want 140+dB? You certainly can't listen to it (from inside). You get into the 120's and you're looking at permanent hearing damage within a few minutes. .

you do realize we are talking CAR audio on this site don't you?

are you trying to tell me in 5 minutes at 140 db in a vehicle caused hearing damage? I believe I, along with my audiologist, disagree.

that or you are just a troll

to th OP get at least 4awg wire