Will the plane take off?? Finally going to be answered.***

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

I was thinking about that last night.
How in the hell are they going to make a 1/4 mile long treadmill?

circuit city sells them //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

its special order, of course. they also sell airplanes that can take off without air movement, in case you still cant get one to take off on the treadmill

 

[shortyg83 10+ year member]

tiger bass you REFUSE to accept the fact that you are iggnorant about how the forces involved interact.
the plane will take off

you seem to think that the plane is coupled directly to the treadmill like a car. when the plane is in fact coupled only in relation. the forward trust applied to a plane is not in relation to the ground, it is in relation to the air. this is where you seem to get confused. because there is a big difference between true and relative groundspeed. and true and realative airspeed. you would know this if you were a pilot

the fact that the treadmill is under the plane makes no difference to the forward trust applied by the planes engine. the treadmill goud be moving at 10x the groundspeed of the plane and the plane would still gain speed. everyone that says the plane won't move because the velocity = 0 is iggnorant to the fact that the plane is not directly coupled to the ground like a car is.. a plane does not need the ground to gain speed. just the air.

ground speed is irelavant to air speed

yup that's right. a planes ground speed doesn't matter only its air speed. this is why in theory if you had a steady 200mph headwind you could have a plane lift of the ground without having any forward volocity in relation to the ground

so to anyone that has no flying experience:

ground speed is irelavant to air speed

air speed is irelavant to ground speed

air sped is what matters

ground speed doesn't mean squat

Ok thats great thanks for the information, BUT there will be NO airspeed. The prop on the plane is used to pull the plane forward not to throw air at the wings. Therefore the plane starts moving forward but the conveyor makes it not move at all. Ground doesn't matter but there is 0 airspeed because the plan is not moving. Plane does not take off.

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

Ok thats great thanks for the information, BUT there will be NO airspeed. The prop on the plane is used to pull the plane forward not to throw air at the wings. Therefore the plane starts moving forward but the conveyor makes it not move at all. Ground doesn't matter but there is 0 airspeed because the plan is not moving. Plane does not take off.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

You're all arguing your points and I think we all know what's going to happen. They're going to try it probably two or three times, then some huge mechanical error will occur, resulting in a "plausible" prediction.

That was my bet.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I still say with a the plane could not take off with a really short tm. Say the tm was 3 foot, there is not enough distance for the propellers to gain enough speed for lift.

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

The treadmill would have to be long enough for the plan to take off from.

Naturally a 747 will never take off a 3 foot long airstrip, moving or not.

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

a wheel wouldn't even fit on one, let alone support the weight of one. lol

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

So the fact that it is on a treadmill is irrelevant in theory. However a mythbuster's application may be different.

 

[myvanpounds 10+ year member]

Ok thats great thanks for the information, BUT there will be NO airspeed. The prop on the plane is used to pull the plane forward not to throw air at the wings. Therefore the plane starts moving forward but the conveyor makes it not move at all. Ground doesn't matter but there is 0 airspeed because the plan is not moving. Plane does not take off.

ya you failed to grasp the whole way a plane uses thrust, the trust is not coupled directly to the ground (like a car) it is coupled to the air. once you grasp this very simple concept you will realize how ignorrant you are

you said right in your post the prop on the plane is used to move the plane forward and it will do just that. and it will gain airspeed do to the thrust produced which will over come the minimal drag the wheels have.

the fact that the ground is moving is whats throwing everyone off, when in reality the ground speed really doesnt matter bacause the trust is not applied through it but only in relation to it

you could use an airboat in the same theoretical example altho the drag forces involved are greater between the boat bottom and water surface

 

[shortyg83 10+ year member]

ya you failed to grasp the whole way a plane uses thrust, the trust is not coupled directly to the ground (like a car) it is coupled to the air. once you grasp this very simple concept you will realize how ignorrant you are

you said right in your post the prop on the plane is used to move the plane forward and it will do just that. and it will gain airspeed do to the thrust produced which will over come the minimal drag the wheels have.

the fact that the ground is moving is whats throwing everyone off, when in reality the ground speed really doesnt matter bacause the trust is not applied through it but only in relation to it

you could use an airboat in the same theoretical example altho the drag forces involved are greater between the boat bottom and water surface

now that I think about it. the plane will probably fly

 

[myvanpounds 10+ year member]

now that I think about it. the plane will probably fly

see, once you open your mind up and grasp the concept you start to really understand it.

 

[shortyg83 10+ year member]

Reason for changing my mind it that i kept thinking of the planes wheels as being in gear, when in actuality they would be more like in neutral so no matter how fast the treadmil goes it will just spin the wheels on the plan as the plane is moving forward.