Why do you need the BIG 3 on stock electrical?

[big scott]

Bigger wires can carry more power, no doubt. The problem is, you're not upgrading your electrical you're upgrading the wires that carry the electricity.

a lot of times you can just upgrade to bigger big 3 .. and your good.

it all depends on alt, demand.. ect...

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

The wires aren't running 20+ feet. They're configured factory to handle the stock alternator. What if I do the big 3 with 8 awg and come back with the same results as everybody else, what then?

go ahead but then you'll have to do the test with 4 gauge and 0 gauge just to be a proper test and you'll need some current draw along with a proper clamp meter along with it.

 

[knighty]

VERY addictive. In the past I spent a lot of money on wiring and upgrades. It is more than worth doing right to begin with. It does help with current flow also with stock alt.

 

[tymoto21 10+ year member]

Some of the reasons in here are completely stupid...

The car has its specific wire because that is what IT needs

The second you add anything you are increasing the draw past what the car normally uses. If you add a 1000w amp the alternator will quickly run out of usable current and the battery will kick in to keep the current flowing.

This is when the big 3 is a MUST in any car audio system.

You are now drawing what the vehicle needs and roughly 100A more for the amplifier. Now as an example you are drawing 160A of current from your stock (90A) alt and battery. The little 8awg wire that supported the cars 60A of draw is now screaming because it can't take any more.

You need larger wire to support the draw you are asking for, not what the alt is giving off.

If you go a step farther though, all current goes back to the engine block.

1) block to frame that is the final ground, so that wire must be large enough to support all the current from all the draw

2) the battery negative to frame/engine must support all the draw. If you are drawing more than the alt can support your battery must make up the difference

3) batt pos to alt pos. that only has to support the alt current, but giving it less resistance (larger wire) won't hurt a thing

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

The biggest issue i see with stock Electrical systems is the poor ground connection from battery to chassis.

8 ga wire for short runs not a big deal for most stock Alternators. But the ground to the Battery supports your headlights, wipers, fans... and now it also supports your amps too. The stock ground typically are on paint steal attached to other thin metal parts that are bolted to other painted body parts...

IMO It would be better to run a copper ground wire from your amps distribution box directly to your battery, rather than the standard "Big3". not saying Big 3 is bad

 

[big scott]

Some of the reasons in here are completely stupid...
The car has its specific wire because that is what IT needs

The second you add anything you are increasing the draw past what the car normally uses. If you add a 1000w amp the alternator will quickly run out of usable current and the battery will kick in to keep the current flowing.

This is when the big 3 is a MUST in any car audio system.

You are now drawing what the vehicle needs and roughly 100A more for the amplifier. Now as an example you are drawing 160A of current from your stock (90A) alt and battery. The little 8awg wire that supported the cars 60A of draw is now screaming because it can't take any more.

You need larger wire to support the draw you are asking for, not what the alt is giving off.

If you go a step farther though, all current goes back to the engine block.

1) block to frame that is the final ground, so that wire must be large enough to support all the current from all the draw

2) the battery negative to frame/engine must support all the draw. If you are drawing more than the alt can support your battery must make up the difference

3) batt pos to alt pos. that only has to support the alt current, but giving it less resistance (larger wire) won't hurt a thing

whats stupid???

verything you just said is what everybody is saying.....

except you say if alt cant supply then the battery takes over...

well to a point...

you need to make power, batterys dont make power it just stores it.

the alt makes it.

 

[big scott]

The biggest issue i see with stock Electrical systems is the poor ground connection from battery to chassis.8 ga wire for short runs not a big deal for most stock Alternators. But the ground to the Battery supports your headlights, wipers, fans... and now it also supports your amps too. The stock ground typically are on paint steal attached to other thin metal parts that are bolted to other painted body parts...

IMO It would be better to run a copper ground wire from your amps distribution box directly to your battery, rather than the standard "Big3". not saying Big 3 is bad

yes.. your right.

many cars/truck use a flat braided wire as engine/body grounds.

it works great for a stock car...

any time you add more demand you need better grounds.

and all my grounds are upgraded for sure...

and i have seen some cars with smaller ground wire from battery to body.

and as for ground to battery, if you have a BIG system yes i agree.

there have been test dont showing the resistance of the frame and its high.

right now i have my amps/batteries grounded to frame on boths side rails.

but when i get my other 2 amps i want to run to frame but from that point to battery/alts .

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

It makes sense but It doesn't make sense. If a wire can carry x amount of current, it can carry it period. Electricity moves fast, I don't see how a bigger wire can make current go faster. The only point I'm seeing so far is future proofing.

take a few classes in physics.. you're not understanding the relationships between voltage, current, and resistance. the potential difference between two points is going to be change depending on the wire you're using, and that absolutely has an effect. think of wire as a resistor, with extremely low resistance.

What Mitchell is saying is correct.

One good rule is never argue about something you have no knowledge about.

Quit being closed-minded and let people tell you what is going on rather than making this reality where only you are right and any information that doesn't fit into your understanding breaks your own laws of reality.

Now, i hope we can continue...

The size of a wire is NOT solely based on amperage.

Sure, wire installations themselves are, however dealing with a small DC voltage range of let's say 11-14.5v, 3.5v swing requires some stringent voltage control.

And to control voltage better is to have less resistance in the wire.

To have less resistance in the wire is to use LARGER wire to resist voltage drop under load.

Running dedicated ground runs. (Something vehicles generally do not come with so think about that for a moment.)

Securing and terminating all wire as best as possible.

Where there is resistance, there is voltage drop and HEAT.

Any loss of efficiency is dispersed into Heat.

So far in this world, nothing is 100% efficient that's marketed.

Curious if you even know that a typical subwoofer is less than 1% efficient.

I'm looking forward to the day where speakers reach 1-2% efficient. High powered speakers.

The cost to power them would be cut so much for what you would get, it would be a revolution for the acoustic world.

But back to the topic-

The reason why manufactures do not use wire like what we use is the same reason why there are a thousand ways to make your car faster.

Why did your car not come with a cold air intake?

If it's working fine before, then it must not need it at all..

Based on your logic, simply replacing the air filter will net a 7HP boost every time the filter is replaced.

Why is the stock wheels the size they are when they could have increased them a couple more inches and gained more gas mileage on the highway?

Based on your logic instead of getting larger wheels, we should just inflate the tires to absolute maximum air pressure (do not do this).

So, i hope you see that you need to accept the information you are being told.

If you must, spend a week and thoroughly read this website- Basic Car Audio Electronics

A small run of 8awg wire can handle let's say 600A of current if the distance is short enough without significant voltage drop..

But you've never seen 8awg wire rated over 100A of current so how can that be?

There is a lot more in physics that evolve around electricity than amps only matter with wire size.

 

[-unknown-]

Some of the reasons in here are completely stupid...
The car has its specific wire because that is what IT needs

The second you add anything you are increasing the draw past what the car normally uses. If you add a 1000w amp the alternator will quickly run out of usable current and the battery will kick in to keep the current flowing.

This is when the big 3 is a MUST in any car audio system.

You are now drawing what the vehicle needs and roughly 100A more for the amplifier. Now as an example you are drawing 160A of current from your stock (90A) alt and battery. The little 8awg wire that supported the cars 60A of draw is now screaming because it can't take any more.

You need larger wire to support the draw you are asking for, not what the alt is giving off.

If you go a step farther though, all current goes back to the engine block.

1) block to frame that is the final ground, so that wire must be large enough to support all the current from all the draw

2) the battery negative to frame/engine must support all the draw. If you are drawing more than the alt can support your battery must make up the difference

3) batt pos to alt pos. that only has to support the alt current, but giving it less resistance (larger wire) won't hurt a thing

So you're saying an alternator is capable of almost double the rated amperage, I don't think so. The larger wire goes from the amps to the battery and the battery acts as a capacitor. The alternator can only give off what it's rated, maybe a little more. The point is you should be upgrading alternators, if your alternator and stock wires can't support your demands, not the wires. The stock wires can handle the stock alternator, I severely doubt anybody can prove different. You put a giant wire on the 3 main cables and increased voltage, impressive. You're not outputting any more current than what 8 awg can handle. Maybe if you did the BIG 3 with 8 awg you would have gained voltage because of OLD wires. Naturally as wires age they gain resistance, it's just common sense.

 

[big scott]

So you're saying an alternator is capable of almost double the rated amperage, I don't think so. The larger wire goes from the amps to the battery and the battery acts as a capacitor. The alternator can only give off what it's rated, maybe a little more. The point is you should be upgrading alternators, if your alternator and stock wires can't support your demands, not the wires. The stock wires can handle the stock alternator, I severely doubt anybody can prove different. You put a giant wire on the 3 main cables and increased voltage, impressive. You're not outputting any more current than what 8 awg can handle. Maybe if you did the BIG 3 with 8 awg you would have gained voltage because of OLD wires. Naturally as wires age they gain resistance, it's just common sense.

i say your very confused... do some reading up on it...

no alt will output more then it can. and when an alt does its bad...

nobody said a bigger wire will pass more voltage.

its all in the resistance . a better, bigger wire will have way less.

so it will help your alt charge the batterys faster.

 

[-unknown-]

i say your very confused... do some reading up on it...
no alt will output more then it can. and when an alt does its bad...

nobody said a bigger wire will pass more voltage.

its all in the resistance . a better, bigger wire will have way less.

so it will help your alt charge the batterys faster.

I didn't say that, the other guy I quoted did.

 

[-unknown-]

What Mitchell is saying is correct.
One good rule is never argue about something you have no knowledge about.

Quit being closed-minded and let people tell you what is going on rather than making this reality where only you are right and any information that doesn't fit into your understanding breaks your own laws of reality.

Now, i hope we can continue...

The size of a wire is NOT solely based on amperage.

Sure, wire installations themselves are, however dealing with a small DC voltage range of let's say 11-14.5v, 3.5v swing requires some stringent voltage control.

And to control voltage better is to have less resistance in the wire.

To have less resistance in the wire is to use LARGER wire to resist voltage drop under load.

Running dedicated ground runs. (Something vehicles generally do not come with so think about that for a moment.)

Securing and terminating all wire as best as possible.

Where there is resistance, there is voltage drop and HEAT.

Any loss of efficiency is dispersed into Heat.

So far in this world, nothing is 100% efficient that's marketed.

Curious if you even know that a typical subwoofer is less than 1% efficient.

I'm looking forward to the day where speakers reach 1-2% efficient. High powered speakers.

The cost to power them would be cut so much for what you would get, it would be a revolution for the acoustic world.

But back to the topic-

The reason why manufactures do not use wire like what we use is the same reason why there are a thousand ways to make your car faster.

Why did your car not come with a cold air intake?

If it's working fine before, then it must not need it at all..

Based on your logic, simply replacing the air filter will net a 7HP boost every time the filter is replaced.

Why is the stock wheels the size they are when they could have increased them a couple more inches and gained more gas mileage on the highway?

Based on your logic instead of getting larger wheels, we should just inflate the tires to absolute maximum air pressure (do not do this).

So, i hope you see that you need to accept the information you are being told.

If you must, spend a week and thoroughly read this website- Basic Car Audio Electronics

A small run of 8awg wire can handle let's say 600A of current if the distance is short enough without significant voltage drop..

But you've never seen 8awg wire rated over 100A of current so how can that be?

There is a lot more in physics that evolve around electricity than amps only matter with wire size.

Oh, and for your information cars do have dedicated ground wires, they're all over the place, if they weren't your computer wouldn't work.

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

It makes sense but It doesn't make sense. If a wire can carry x amount of current, it can carry it period. Electricity moves fast, I don't see how a bigger wire can make current go faster. The only point I'm seeing so far is future proofing.

take a few classes in physics.. you're not understanding the relationships between voltage, current, and resistance. the potential difference between two points is going to be change depending on the wire you're using, and that absolutely has an effect. think of wire as a resistor, with extremely low resistance.

Oh, and for your information cars do have dedicated ground wires, they're all over the place, if they weren't your computer wouldn't work.

Again, you are 100% wrong.

 

[kcr357 10+ year member]

I didn't say that, the other guy I quoted did.

" Now as an example you are drawing 160A of current from your stock (90A) alt and battery."

160 amps from alt AND BATTERY, not alt only.

Dude, accept you don't know as much as you think you do.

There's a saying in poker that if you don't know which person playing is the sucker, it's you.

Well, when there's an entire forum of experienced users all saying the same thing regarding a topic, and you're telling all of them they are incorrect,...

 

[-unknown-]

Again, you are 100% wrong.

I'm sorry, are you an ASE certified mechanic with 40 years experience of working on cars, trucks, buses or a certified professional garage mechanic?