Whats up with people going crazy with sound deadener?

[fasfocus00 5,000+ posts]

ignorance with thinking that more is better is most of the reason ppl over use any product. also the fact that the market is now flooded with ppl that are good at business but not with what the business deals with. plus too many DIY'ers are DIY b/c of money and don't want to actually learn how to actually do something correctly. many of the "pros" are "pros" b/c certifications are a written test that is not experience based that most ppl that can retain a memory for more than a week can pass.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Meade is lame. Also he's either stupid or fake or both. Also a liar. It might a contageous thing that SS got going on.

Meade tried to make it seem like I registered today just to post in that forum. Today I made my second post there in his deadening thread; my first post there was months ago in a T/A thread. Now i'm banned lol, for disagreeing w/ his waste of CLD.

Also my post was informative that went against his BS 200%+ coverage... however it did have a small jab at SS saying they/he loves noobs that do 100%+ coverage because of course that =$$$$$ in CLD sales.

 

[CH@Dbee 10+ year member]

i had planned on over doing the deader in my truck because i HATE rattles. for a 1500rms sub and 400rms mids/highs set-up i was thinking a bulk back of damp pro and spl tiles on the tailgate......am i going too far?

 

[MegaloJntariac 10+ year member]

meade is irrational it seems. All I wanted to do was help save money and find a better way to dampen.

 

[Jeremy M 10+ year member]

i'm curious to what atusaebrey or w/e has to say...i believe he has a shit ton in his 300.

when all said and done i'll ahve roughly 100sq ft in my car. 40sq alone on the doors

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks

 

[Supergumby5000 5,000+ posts]

i personally think its all just a misunderstanding of how people want to make their car quieter.

people dont understand that rubber mat is designed for vibrations, not sound deadening.

 

[SRim23 5,000+ posts]

Sound deadener doesn't block air born noises, or not very well.... You need to research.

really? own a honda civic and youd realize deadener DOES block road noise lol trust me on that.

 

[SRim23 5,000+ posts]

Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks

lick on these nuts and **** the dick.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

i'm curious to what atusaebrey or w/e has to say...i believe he has a shit ton in his 300.
when all said and done i'll ahve roughly 100sq ft in my car. 40sq alone on the doors

You're a dumbass and what ats has to say won't mean shit because he's biased to SS and that retarded 100%+ coverage waste of money BS.

Edit: the "dumbass" comment mightve been a little rough, I apologize, but why pass up on good info that would help you save a lot of time and money?

P.S... F U

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

really? own a honda civic and youd realize deadener DOES block road noise lol trust me on that.

It's a horribly ineffective and expensive way to block noise.

Body panels are like a fiberglass, more susceptible to flexing when flat, but stronger at the bends and curves. The corrugated parts rarely do not need CLD like the flat areas would.

100% is already a huge waste of money. Any extra layer on top of the first, is just dampening the first layer, and will just become an extremely expensive mass loader.

Some will try to say they need the 100% because they have mad dBz yo and have flexing panels. It's still silly to apply any more than ~50% coverage, when you can brace that flexing panel by welding in some bracing or using some strong adhesive. We can relate this to subwoofer enclosures and bracing. If you have a long flat side/panel, you can strategically add bracing either in the middle or in sections to reduce/prevent flex.

To further this example, we can relate the bracing of enclosures to the 25% theory. You can have perpendicular panel spanning fully vertically or horizontally to brace, OR you can simply use a wooden dowel or threaded rod. The dowel or thread rod has minimal contact with the enclosure panels, but are really effective.

Yes, you can double up the whole panel (double baffle), but just like extra layers of CLD, it'll get more expensive. However, unlike double baffling, the extra layer of CLD will not act like another layer of sheet metal.

 

[SRim23 5,000+ posts]

It's a horribly ineffective and expensive way to block noise.
Body panels are like a fiberglass, more susceptible to flexing when flat, but stronger at the bends and curves. The corrugated parts rarely do not need CLD like the flat areas would.

100% is already a huge waste of money. Any extra layer on top of the first, is just dampening the first layer, and will just become an extremely expensive mass loader.

Some will try to say they need the 100% because they have mad dBz yo and have flexing panels. It's still silly to apply any more than ~50% coverage, when you can brace that flexing panel by welding in some bracing or using some strong adhesive. We can relate this to subwoofer enclosures and bracing. If you have a long flat side/panel, you can strategically add bracing either in the middle or in sections to reduce/prevent flex.

To further this example, we can relate the bracing of enclosures to the 25% theory. You can have perpendicular panel spanning fully vertically or horizontally to brace, OR you can simply use a wooden dowel or threaded rod. The dowel or thread rod has minimal contact with the enclosure panels, but are really effective.

Yes, you can double up the whole panel (double baffle), but just like extra layers of CLD, it'll get more expensive. However, unlike double baffling, the extra layer of CLD will not act like another layer of sheet metal.

One layer in my trunk, wheel wells, and a layer on the doors. im not the typical "i need mad bass yo" like most of the guys here. my entire current setup consists of Polk MMC6500 components up front, and a single DIYMA 12 in the trunk. Running about 800 RMS total. The amount of deadener I have is plenty to keep my trunk from rattling and cut ALOT of the road noise.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

One layer in my trunk, wheel wells, and a layer on the doors. im not the typical "i need mad bass yo" like most of the guys here. my entire current setup consists of Polk MMC6500 components up front, and a single DIYMA 12 in the trunk. Running about 800 RMS total. The amount of deadener I have is plenty to keep my trunk from rattling and cut ALOT of the road noise.

MLV to block road noise, not CLD.

Fight rattling by decoupling the pieces that are rattling... some foam or even and old crappy t-shirt/rag.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I just read this thread
http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/index.php?showtopic=63972

Along with countless others.

What is up with these people loading shit tons of deadener all over there car? Check out some of the videos in the thread....I mean the speaker taps on the face of bare metal, and then taps on the same metal with sound deadener and exlaims how big of a difference it makes.

WOW what a breakthrough...im sure wiping the metal down 2x its original mass in liquid nails and shit would have the same effect...mass loading is mass loading.

What I dont understand is people going crazy....putting 10x the ammount that is needed all OVER there car.....killing mileage..hurting resale...costing themselves money.

Please explain to me why applying 10,0000 layers of deadener to the same spot, along with applying it to vibration dead areas will have a substantial effect over 1-2 layers spaced in strategic locations, otherwise I will continue to believe this is all a sales ploy.

I have deadener in my car BTW.

You seem to be implying there is a paradigm shift towards using many layers, full coverage, of CLD. The actuality is the paradign shift is moving away from that, education of people in this hobby/industry to realize thhis is an inefficient means of blocking road noise and/or damping unwanted vibrations. You creating this thread to ask this question, and not having the vast majority of the responses resembling 'because it works!!!11!' is a sign of a paradigm shift in the making. From decades ago, to even recently, it was widely accepted that 100% coverage, and mutliple layers, of CLD was simply the thing to do. Ive been guilty of believing it for longer than I should admit. But times they are a changin.
And yes, Don and his SDS are in no small way a big part of the growing education on this topic. He's certainly not the first to realize the diminishing returns of approaching full coverage (or more), OEM car manufacturers figured it out long ago. But Don can be thanked for enlightening this forum, and many internet savvy car audio enthusiasts around the world. It could even be said he's set in the industry of aftermarket car sound deadening on its ear. He's made some waves that are getting noticed, sometimes due to enlightening people in the industry, and sometimes by letting people know that their future potential customers will be more enlightened than previous generations were.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Something to keep in mind with many of these "impressive" deadener installations is that the person doing it isn't paying for the materials. That tends to skew the normal interest in efficiency and value.

Multiple layers of CLD probably doesn't hurt resale value, but it does make any future sheet metal maintenance much more difficult.

It's pretty easy to see how the process developed. I know of four factors that have contributed:

1) The "tap test". Tapping is a great way to find resonant areas before you start vibration damping. If you take that to the next step and use it as guide to determine when a panel is "dead", you're going to apply layer after layer until you've built up enough thickness to cushion the impact. Unless you're building a paintball tank, your vehicle is never going to see anything comparable to tapping on it. You're solving a problem that doesn't exist.

2) A full layer of CLD will block a little bit of noise. A second layer will block a little bit more. It's not even close to the best way to create a barrier, but since each layer brings a marginal improvement, it's easy to keep going.

3) One product will do everything for everyone. This is partly due to marketing and partly due to practical considerations. If a full layer of vibration damper will block some noise and add even a little bit of thermal insulation, might as well talk those features up. It's true even if it doesn't make sense to approach noise and heat that way. Few people know that Dynamic Control offers a comprehensive line of products. It's hard enough to move Dynamat Xtreme through retail channels. There's very little chance that most clerks or salesmen are going to learn the intricacies of where and how to use each product. There's even less chance that stores and shops are going to stock the full range of products for the few sales doing so will generate.

4) SPL competitors do it. I realize this is sort of circular logic in the context of the OP's question, but since that justification has been aimed directly at me, I'd like to address it. Targeted vibration damping is OK for "modest" installs and cheapskates but the big dogz go all out and so should you. Some of this goes back to point 3. It's a terrible argument.

The treatments you apply to your vehicle should be determined by what you are trying to accomplish. If you are only going for numbers on a meter, you don't care about noise or distortion since both can be measured in decibels. You don't want any vibration damper. Vibration dampers work by converting vibration to heat. Heat doesn't do you any good at all. As has already been suggested, brace your panels to prevent energy loss from flexing. Panel resonance will help your score. A liquid vibration damper will do a much better job of stiffening panels than any CLD, but it will still dissipate sound energy into heat.

For those of us who aren't building an SPL competition vehicle, the objectives are different. If you care about accurate music reproduction, panel resonance is an enemy. It reinforces the sound you hear with its resonant frequency. Targeted vibration damping is the most effective solution.

If you want to reduce the noise you hear from engine, exhaust, tires, air turbulence and traffic, targeted vibration damping to prevent transmission into the passenger compartment, followed by an effective and efficient barrier is the solution.

As complicated as a lot this seems when we first encounter the topic, it really is simple. I've been participating in a discussion on another forum about putting a thin layer of closed cell foam on the outer door skin. My position is that it doesn't do anything - or at least that nobody has ever presented a reason to do it that doesn't involve magic. The counter argument was: Why does everyone do it if it doesn't do anything? Answer: Everyone does it because everyone does it.