what makes a sub musical

[itsblown 10+ year member]

In the attempt to educate myself I have been asking myself this question and trying to do some research. I also hear less educated people (friends) say "ohh why would you want an 18 that wont sound good at all". so I was wondering what exactly makes a sub musical and how can you tell if a sub will be "musical" I realize musical is an opinion but when i use the word im refering to it being able to produce a decent sized frequency range and actually produce tones found in every day music like drums and bass pedal accurately. I realize that this matters on the tuning of the enclosure what amp its on etc. But I would like to know where this stigma comes from that 18s cant be musical( im not talking about all out sq either)? is it just un-educated people thinking there experts or is there fact behind it.

I was wondering this question after looking over the fi-q 18 it has a fs of 33hz which is higher then some other 12 or 10 or even 8 inch subwoofers so that leads me to believe it will also be able to play notes found in every day music just fine.

Im hopping for someone with 18s to chime in here. For daily driving lets say the volume is at a reasonable level, like loud enough to carry a conversation but still hear the music. does the sub actually kick in and add to the enjoyment or is it just an over powering burping noise? I gues this also depends on tunning hopefully someone knows what the hell im trying to describe lol

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[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

How a sub is built will decide how it will perform over all. However, you can create an enclosure to do very close to what ever you want the sub to do as long as it is with in the mechanical limits of the driver.

 

[itsblown 10+ year member]

alright what should I look for when it comes to specs for a musical sub vs a all out spl sub is there something that will give it away?

 

[Tupolev 10+ year member]

I go by a ratio of the BL force and Cms. But I just pulled that out of my ass.

 

[Phoenix Risen 10+ year member]

a low fs and decent excursion is always a good place to start. also (if you can believe the number) a higher sensitivity.

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

a low fs and decent excursion is always a good place to start. also (if you can believe the number) a higher sensitivity.

i don't believe any of those numbers when they are listed.

 

[itsblown 10+ year member]

a low fs and decent excursion is always a good place to start. also (if you can believe the number) a higher sensitivity.

so lower fs = more spl oriented or a lower fs = more musical oriented

also is there any legit brands who post legit numbers I figure FI and Sundown wouldnt be ones to fabricate there numbers

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

This question can result in some pretty heated discussion on most forums.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif A lot of people have a lot to say about how a driver will perform without understanding how the driver design dictates the general performance of the driver.

The T/S parameters after break-in are critical in determining how a driver will sound "on paper". Hearing a particular sub model in several types of enclosures will help you determine what type of Sound Quality it will have. Unfortunately, most people don't have the luxury to trial and error several subs in multiple enclosures to find one they like. This is where you will have to do research about PROVEN combos of subs and enclosures.

A few basic guidelines:

1. A sub with a low Fs of around 17-28Hz generally has more usable bandwidth. (wider range of sound, less peaky/SPL orientated)

2. A sub with a strong motor generally has less distortion than one with a weaker motor (BL spec)

3. A sub with a lower moving mass can generally reproduce the sound better than a heavy cone speaker with a higher moving mass.

Lots of other factors come into play. Once again, this is a subject that gets a lot of heated debate so its best to take everything you read with a grain of salt. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

A lot of home theater forums have good information about subwoofer design and achieving a "flat" response from 20hz to ~80hz.

 

[Phoenix Risen 10+ year member]

i don't believe any of those numbers when they are listed.

thats the real downside,

especially with how much those can change depending on the way they are tested.

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

so lower fs = more spl oriented or a lower fs = more musical oriented
also is there any legit brands who post legit numbers I figure FI and Sundown wouldnt be ones to fabricate there numbers

T/S are a very sensitive subject. The way they are figured is a horrible method and almost never applies to mobile audio. I'm not saying they are a farce, but I am saying they are not as accurate as most like to claim.

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

T/S are a very sensitive subject. The way they are figured is a horrible method and almost never applies to mobile audio. I'm not saying they are a farce, but I am saying they are not as accurate as most like to claim.

Therein lies the problem. A lot of manufactures will pull several random drivers off a line and test the T/S parameters on a fresh driver. However, after 20 minutes or more of break-in, the T/S parameters can vary quite a bit. Here are some tests on regular speakers after break-in.

Do subwoofers go through a "break-in" period? - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

 

[THATpurpleKUSH 5,000+ posts]

You guys have left out inductance. This is very important for distortion and transient response. I can't beleive no one has brought it up yet.

Moving mass has nothing to do with musical ability, this following article PROVES it!

This article is written by Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio:

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/WooferSpeed.pdf

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

You guys have left out inductance. This is very important for distortion and transient response. I can't beleive no one has brought it up yet.
Moving mass has nothing to do with musical ability, this following article PROVES it!

This article is written by Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio:

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/WooferSpeed.pdf

I was not suggesting anything other then how a driver is designed overall will depict the result of it and that an enclosure will fill the gap even more and have a larger impact overall.

I was suggesting that T/S are a crap shoot overall though lol.

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

Moving mass has nothing to do with musical ability, this following article PROVES it!

This article is written by Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio:

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/WooferSpeed.pdf

I have been pointed to that article before. If you read the article, it even shows that the added mass definitely affects the woofer's speed and response. The blue line verses the red line, especially Below 700hz. Above 700hz, they are pretty close. Since we play our Subwoofers at 80hz and below, this has much more effect in our cases. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Inductance is a definite factor also. A lower inductance woofer will have a higher sensitivity (in general) or actually faster transient response - depending on how you look at it. It really comes down to how accurately can you control the cone. Some speakers with weak motors and weak cone is similar to beating a drum by hand. A sub with a strong motor, strong cone that is easily controlled is like having a servo activated drum skin, to put it into a visual... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif