what does midbass have to do with it????

[miker 5,000+ posts]

i have respect for all freq, i just dont choose one when listening to my music.

YEah, but you don't want to be lacking in one either

 

[toymachine2628 10+ year member]

YEah, but you don't want to be lacking in one either

really, explain? since your so smart

 

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

as helotaxi said, you want to have as much "upfront" bass as possible to keep imaging and blending properties in your set up.

one thing i will go out and say in rebuttal to his statement (actually, not so much a rebuttal but perhaps an addendum //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif ), lower frequencies start to become omni directional below a certain frequency, meaning that you cannot pinpoint the source of the sound. this is why subs are fine to be located behind the listener, while other speakers need to be in front of or as closely aligned to the listener as possible (higher frequencies are even more directional. imagine the higher frequencies acting like a beam while lower freqs start to fan out more and more until they eventually fan out all the way in 360 degrees). why am i telling you this? so you can understand why you need to find the cut off point between sub-bass and mid-bass //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

another factor as to why people make a big deal about mid-bass is, like people have said, it is often difficult to get a good mid-bass reproduction in your stereo install. as the frequencies get lower and lower, the cone speed slows down, thusly, the effective range that the speaker reproducing the sounds gets smaller since the cone cant move fast and slow at the same time. so to get a great reproduction throughout the entire human listening range, you would need more and more speakers, which is hardly ever practical or effective...

i just got distracted and i guess thats really all i got for right now... maybe someone will follow behind me and reinforce or correct something i said //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[toymachine2628 10+ year member]

as helotaxi said, you want to have as much "upfront" bass as possible to keep imaging and blending properties in your set up.
one thing i will go out and say in rebuttal to his statement (actually, not so much a rebuttal but perhaps an addendum //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif ), lower frequencies start to become omni directional below a certain frequency, meaning that you cannot pinpoint the source of the sound. this is why subs are fine to be located behind the listener, while other speakers need to be in front of or as closely aligned to the listener as possible (higher frequencies are even more directional. imagine the higher frequencies acting like a beam while lower freqs start to fan out more and more until they eventually fan out all the way in 360 degrees). why am i telling you this? so you can understand why you need to find the cut off point between sub-bass and mid-bass //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

another factor as to why people make a big deal about mid-bass is, like people have said, it is often difficult to get a good mid-bass reproduction in your stereo install. as the frequencies get lower and lower, the cone speed slows down, thusly, the effective range that the speaker reproducing the sounds gets smaller since the cone cant move fast and slow at the same time. so to get a great reproduction throughout the entire human listening range, you would need more and more speakers, which is hardly ever practical or effective...

i just got distracted and i guess thats really all i got for right now... maybe someone will follow behind me and reinforce or correct something i said //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

thank you.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Actually a speaker can and does move both fast and slow at the same time. The best speakers do it quite well and they are the ones that give good midbass response. There is no hard and fast rule as to the exact frequency cutoff where sound is easily placeable as to its source. As such you try to get the front speakers going as low as possible to remove any chance of a random bass note suddenly placing itself as coming from the sub behind you.

Yes, the full spectrum of frequencies should be balanced and that is why getting good midbass is important. The resonance nodes of the typical car along with the typical speaker placement causes a cancellation node right in the middle of the midbass range and most car installs horribly lack midbass. This leads many to turn up the low pass freq on the subs which then drags the midbass range to being localized as coming from the subs. Totally wrecks the soundstage when it sounds like the band is in front of you except for the bass player and the drum kit is spread all over the place.

As driver diameter increases it also tends to cause an effect called beaming. The freq at which a driver beams is inversly proportional to its diameter. So a large diameter driver beams at a lower freq than a smaller one. A driver that is playing above its beam freq displays a very focused dispersion pattern and the response off axis gets pretty ragged. This is one of the reasons that tweets are small. The other problem associated with driver size is breakup. As a large diaphram tries to reproduce a high freq, the cone begins to flex and ad harmonic content that colors the sound. Smaller drivers can be made stiffer than larger ones for a given mass. High stiffness to mass ratios become important because of voicecoil inductance. To move a heavy cone you need a large voicecoil. A large voicecoil will have a higher inductance which will limit the upper range of the driver's response. High freq drivers need to have a very low inductance and thus need a small coil.

The end result of all of this is that the ideal setup would be a driver able to play from below 20Hz to above 20kHz by itself. This isn't possible so the next best thing is to have a single driver cover as much of the audible spectrum as possible. To this end most DIY guys try to find a tweeter that will play as low as possible allowing them to pair them with a larger midrange. The larger cone area of the midrange allows it to play down low with some authority and limiting it on the top end keeps it from beaming and/or breaking up at higher freqs. The other way that this is handled is to run a 3-way front stage where the midrange plays well up into the freq normally handled by the tweeter in a 2-way setup leaving a dedicated midbass driver and the tweet to fill in the rest. Either method can yield excellent results depending on the specific goals of the system.

Notice I didnt' even mention the subs. If the front stage is done right, the subs are almost an afterthought. They will only cover the bottom octave and a half at most.

 

[XxSuperAdamxX 10+ year member]

I never paid attention to midbass like a year ago, but about half a year ago I started to care about mid bass. It has a nice punch to songs, playing certain frequency that subs can't play.

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

an intelligible explanation is needed... you need to elaborate. This is a discussion these kind responses do nothing but confuse and mislead people.
i dont understand why if your front speakers have lower freq. response you have the best staging and imaging, explain..

i dont understand why it is the goal. almost every speaker review and recommendation on caraudio forums include GreaT MidBass. shouldnt the goal be to have perfect balance of all freq.?

why shouldnt sub play midbass freq, explain.

You are an idiot.

 

[XxSuperAdamxX 10+ year member]

You are an idiot.

Haha, come on now. Let the guy ask the questions. With more post on this thread he can understand more.

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

Haha, come on now. Let the guy ask the questions. With more post on this thread he can understand more.

As far as I am concerned he can ask all of the questions that he wants, stupid or otherwise. You will not catch me flaming someone for simply not knowing the answer to his own question.

However, when someone has this type of reply to someone who is trying to help him, it irks me:

an intelligible explanation is needed... you need to elaborate. This is a discussion these kind responses do nothing but confuse and mislead people.i dont understand why if your front speakers have lower freq. response you have the best staging and imaging, explain..

i dont understand why it is the goal. almost every speaker review and recommendation on caraudio forums include GreaT MidBass. shouldnt the goal be to have perfect balance of all freq.?

why shouldnt sub play midbass freq, explain.

Do0d acts like he is paying for the advice.

 

[skydeaner 10+ year member]

sounds like toymachine has a little midbass envy going on... maybe his woofer is a lil too small, or doesn't move like most peoples.

hehe, just kiddin, there have been some very good points made in this thread. Midbass is so hard to achieve in the car for many reasons. One is the enclosure problem. If we could drop a two cubic foot enclosure in the leg area of each front seat it would be no problem getting adequate midbass out of a 6.5 or 5.25 driver in the car. But for most people, the partially sealed heavily dampened inside of a door panel will have to do. Cabin gain helps out some, but has less of an impact the higher frequency you go. Not to mention that makes the drivers almost playing in free air, so their excursion goes kinda wild under the drivers resonant frequency.

The fact that it is hard to come by is why it is always mentioned in reviews. You can't just ignore the 65-120hz frequency range or 80-120 whatever you want to consider your midbass area. And with the subwoofers playing in that band it is pretty easy to localize them as coming from behind you, not to mention a lot of subwoofers frequency response in this area is less than desireable, or they just sound like crap playing at 120hz at the same time they are trying to belt out a 35hz thud. It is almost impossible to find a 10"-15" that will play 25-30hz at an acceptable level and still be able to play up to 120 and sound good, let alone play as loud as most people play their car stereos.

 

[WrenchGuy 10+ year member]

Midbass is as important as the cow bell!

 

[MyFartsStink 10+ year member]

I find that I get alot better mid-bass responce when I put speakers in sealed enclosures.

 

[oldschool4me 10+ year member]

yes, i agree a midbass is important in a good sounding system. a midbass woofer and a midrange woofer are not the same thing. a common misunderstanding. an actual midbass usually designed to be in the 25- 500 hz range. a mid woofer is designed to go much higher and usually lack in the say 80-250hz range. i like to use midbass speakers in the rear deck. i also am firm on using baffles to help with acoustics. i listen to a variety of music and for some music it is a great enhancement to have a great ( lets not say midbass lol) we will use low to mid frequency range, such as drums, bass guitar, vocals etc. if you like to feel your music and not just the bass then this is something you may want to look into. if you enjoy schrill highs then dont worry about it, your all set.

 

[oldschool4me 10+ year member]

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2592

notice the frequency range. your front stage will pick up anything higher.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Problem with running something like that in the rear deck is that they are easily localized. So much for any semblance of proper staging.

There are drivers out there that will flat own those Kickers in the midbass region and still play high enough to pair with a low Fs tweet.