what do you guys think about war?

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

Hitler was IMO a great leader..after all, he did bring Germany to power...but he was corupt and a big piece of shit. My friend majors in History, and he actually had to read a book about good things that Hitler did.

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LWW Don't be so hard on yourself.

 

PEACE

From everything I've heard, Hitler was a GREAT leader.. psycho and killed millions of people for no apparent reason other than he was nuts.. But was one of Histroy's greatest.. Didn't he accuire MORE territory than ANY other leader in history? I could be wrong, but I thought I heard/read that someplace..

Would I want Hitler to be 'my leader'? FUK NO!.. crazy bastard.. I might sneeze in a hall he was giving a speach in and he'd .... *shivers* don't even want to think about what he did.. makes me soooooooo sick.. Hell, great leader or not, if he was alive now, I'd be more than happy to feed him his nards and push him through a shredder..

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

Originally posted by Savant From everything I've heard, Hitler was a GREAT leader.. psycho and killed millions of people for no apparent reason other than he was nuts.. But was one of Histroy's greatest.. Didn't he accuire MORE territory than ANY other leader in history? I could be wrong, but I thought I heard/read that someplace..

 

Would I want Hitler to be 'my leader'? FUK NO!.. crazy bastard.. I might sneeze in a hall he was giving a speach in and he'd .... *shivers* don't even want to think about what he did.. makes me soooooooo sick.. Hell, great leader or not, if he was alive now, I'd be more than happy to feed him his nards and push him through a shredder..

Honestly, if I was a Nazi and a Socialist, Hitler would be my man. But if he were still alive, I'd shank him with a rusty nail....

 

[LuRp 10+ year member]

Hitler was a great leader

hmm, I guess you have to murder 6,000,000+ humans to be a great leader.

Im amazed. Actually not that amazed. I would expect something like that from you fools.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

Originally posted by LuRp

 

 

hmm, I guess you have to murder 6,000,000+ humans to be a great leader.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im amazed. Actually not that amazed. I would expect something like that from you fools.

The guy was insane...but look what he did with Germany...Germany wouldn't exist if it wasn't for him...

 

[zane 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LuRp

 

 

hmm, I guess you have to murder 6,000,000+ humans to be a great leader.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im amazed. Actually not that amazed. I would expect something like that from you fools.

I see your point, however, consider this view:

Hitler was a very strong leader and an excellent strategist. Just happens that he was also racist in a big way, and had several demented views on many things.

From the point of him being a strong leader; look at the size of his empire and the total number of people that followed his word. Look at the great number of industrial gains due to his lead. (mainly trasnportation and weaponry).

These aspects alone are signs of a strong leader.

I say strong leader, not good leader, because clearly he knew how to lead, just not how to do so morally and respectfully.

take it easy,

-zane

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

Hitler was an idiot and a pi**poor leader who only survived thru fear and intimidation. German science was ahead of everybody yet:

1-When presented with the world's first jet fighter which would have blown the allies from the sky Hitler insisted that it be converted to a bomber and production limited because prop fighters were cheaper.

2-When presented with the world's first automatic assault rifle, the sturmgevehr or something like that, which would have been the perfect weapon for the house to house combat in Leningrad and Stalingrad he halted production because the overweight unweildy single shot wooden rifles were cheaper.

3-With England on the ropes and the US not yet in the war and victory within his grasp Hitler backed off the bombing of British airfields to bomb civilians. He moved his British invasion force to attack the USSR. He also declared war on the US.

4-When the Allies landed on D-Day the Nazis had in place the forces to crush the invasion before it got a toehold...but nobody had the hangiedowns to wake der Fuehrer...the only on who could order the Panzer divisions to attack.

5-Killed off the General staff which directed the initial successful Blitzkriegs.

6-Squandered billions of R&D moneies to research such foolish ideas as a hollow Earth. The theory was that we live INSIDE the globe and the stars appear to be so far away because they are so tiny. Across the void of the hollow Earth was America and Washington DC was right over your head if you were in Berlin. Well "if ve build a teleschkopen big enuff ve vill be able to shpy on ze hated Amerikaners...BWAHAHAHAHA...".

Bottom line is a moron could have led Germany to a WWII victory and luckily Hitler wasn't even that smart.

PEACE

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by zane I see your point, however, consider this view:

 

Hitler was a very strong leader and an excellent strategist. Just happens that he was also racist in a big way, and had several demented views on many things.

 

From the point of him being a strong leader; look at the size of his empire and the total number of people that followed his word. Look at the great number of industrial gains due to his lead. (mainly trasnportation and weaponry).

 

These aspects alone are signs of a strong leader.

 

I say strong leader, not good leader, because clearly he knew how to lead, just not how to do so morally and respectfully.

 

take it easy,

 

-zane

Splitting hairs and semantics.. I agree with you .. 'strong'.. not 'great'.. though, in the strictest definition, great would apply just as well since 'great' and 'leader' have nothing about being 'human' and 'decent' and 'compassionate' in their definitions.. *shrug*

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LWW Hitler was an idiot and a pi**poor leader who only survived thru fear and intimidation. German science was ahead of everybody yet:

 

1-When presented with the world's first jet fighter which would have blown the allies from the sky Hitler insisted that it be converted to a bomber and production limited because prop fighters were cheaper.

 

2-When presented with the world's first automatic assault rifle, the sturmgevehr or something like that, which would have been the perfect weapon for the house to house combat in Leningrad and Stalingrad he halted production because the overweight unweildy single shot wooden rifles were cheaper.

 

3-With England on the ropes and the US not yet in the war and victory within his grasp Hitler backed off the bombing of British airfields to bomb civilians. He moved his British invasion force to attack the USSR. He also declared war on the US.

 

4-When the Allies landed on D-Day the Nazis had in place the forces to crush the invasion before it got a toehold...but nobody had the hangiedowns to wake der Fuehrer...the only on who could order the Panzer divisions to attack.

 

5-Killed off the General staff which directed the initial successful Blitzkriegs.

 

6-Squandered billions of R&D moneies to research such foolish ideas as a hollow Earth. The theory was that we live INSIDE the globe and the stars appear to be so far away because they are so tiny. Across the void of the hollow Earth was America and Washington DC was right over your head if you were in Berlin. Well "if ve build a teleschkopen big enuff ve vill be able to shpy on ze hated Amerikaners...BWAHAHAHAHA...".

 

Bottom line is a moron could have led Germany to a WWII victory and luckily Hitler wasn't even that smart.

 

PEACE

Lets think about some of this.. Toward the end of the war he could have stopped an invasion if his troops weren't terrified to wake him so he could send the tanks-a-rolln'.. ok.. so his TROOPS dropped the ball, justifiably terrified of him or not, how can it be Hitler's fault no one woke him and told him there was an invasion on?

As far as not going with tech and staying cheap.. Makes sense to a degree.. I mean, think about it.. your millitary needs supplies.. lots of them.. and needs them 'now'.. you want to waste time and money by making 'good' stuff and not being able to get it in the hands of the troops in a timely manner? In war, sometimes cheap and fast is better than slower-produced but superior and expensinve (limiting amount to be made).. depends on the circumstances.. I don't know enough about the specifics of WWII and Germany's resources and such.. but I'd immagine staying cheap was a good idea..

And, pissing away money on 'foolish' research only goes to substantiate his psychosis.. Didn't I read somewhere that they are pretty sure Hitler ended up dying of Syphilus (suicied but from the demented state of syphilus)? Doesn't Syphilus cause instanity? Hmm.. lets see.. most expansionistic leader of all time who had all his followers cowering in fear and would do anything he said.. had the ENTIRE world in chaos for years.. Na.. nothing to any of that.. Killing his staff, wasting tons of money, switching bombing to civys instead of millitary.. Cruel and psycho things to do.. doesn't make him a fool, makes him NUTS..

Again, it looks like the American 'ethnocentric' view of what it takes to be a good leader (liked and loved by yoru people, always looking to tech over raw force, etc etc)..

But, again, this is off topic.. We are talking about the impending war with Saddam, not Hitler.. and Saddam is not even 1/10 the leader Hitler was..

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LuRp

 

hmm, I guess you have to murder 6,000,000+ humans to be a great leader.

 

 

Im amazed. Actually not that amazed. I would expect something like that from you fools.

LOL.. Once again you do nothing to provide any usefull information or offer ANY kind of argument.. you just sit back and toss out a few insults and hope like hell that it helps support your earlier bad arguments? You are a funny guy //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Not to mention you still don't seem to have learned to read.. Eveyone that said anything about him being a great leader also said he was nuts.. killing 6,000,000+ humans makes you nuts (well, kinda.. depends on what your reasons are.. In this care, we're pretty sure Hitler was nuts)

Didn't you say you were "done with you"? go away..

like i said, im done with you guys. Idiot Savant and his groupies: I invite you to put your "money" (get it? probably not) where your mouth is (that is if you can get your head far enough out of savants *** to do it).

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif :banghead:

 

[LWW 10+ year member]

Savant you are out their buddy.

1-Alexander the Great.

2-Genghis Khan.

3-Attila the Hun.

4-Napoleon.

5-Hitler.

6-Hussein.

All madmen. None leaders. A leader is one who can inspire another to "follow the leader" through the leader's examples. A tyrant rules by fear.

These types are all the same inside the mind. As the weaponry has advanced they can no longer be tolerated.

PEACE

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by LWW Savant you are out their buddy.

 

1-Alexander the Great.

2-Genghis Khan.

3-Attila the Hun.

4-Napoleon.

5-Hitler.

6-Hussein.

 

All madmen. None leaders. A leader is one who can inspire another to "follow the leader" through the leader's examples. A tyrant rules by fear.

 

These types are all the same inside the mind. As the weaponry has advanced they can no longer be tolerated.

 

PEACE

lead·er

n.

1. One that leads or guides.

2. One who is in charge or in command of others.

3.

.......1. One who heads a political party or organization.

.......2. One who has influence or power, especially of a political nature.

From dictionary.com.. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=leader

Says nothing about 'inspire' or 'being liked so people follow'.. Like I said, that's an American take on what "we" expect from a "leader", but by no means is the defining factor. So, most of the people you listed in your list-thingy-there.. are pretty decent leaders as far as 'definition' and 'history' are concerned..

They are 'also' tyrants..

ty·rant

n.

1. An absolute ruler who governs without restrictions.

2. A ruler who exercises power in a harsh, cruel manner.

3. An oppressive, harsh, arbitrary person.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tyrant

Oh.. and

great [Audio pronunciation of great] ( P ) Pronunciation Key (grt)

adj. great·er, great·est

1. Very large in size.

2. Larger in size than others of the same kind.

3. Large in quantity or number: A great throng awaited us. See Synonyms at large.

4. Extensive in time or distance: a great delay.

5. Remarkable or outstanding in magnitude, degree, or extent: a great crisis.

6. Of outstanding significance or importance: a great work of art.

7. Chief or principal: the great house on the estate.

8. Superior in quality or character; noble: ?For he was great, ere fortune made him so? (John Dryden).

9. Powerful; influential: one of the great nations of the West.

10. Eminent; distinguished: a great leader.

11. Grand; aristocratic.

12. Informal. Enthusiastic: a great lover of music.

13. Informal. Very skillful: great at algebra.

14. Informal. Very good; first-rate: We had a great time at the dance.

15. Being one generation removed from the relative specified. Often used in combination: a great-granddaughter.

16. Archaic. Pregnant.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=great

as opposed to 'strong'

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=strong

strong/great was set as a scemantic argument, but, arguably interchangable in this context..

 

[97dakota 10+ year member]

now this is getting stupid. I geuss it has some entertainment value.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

I think Savant won this round...Hitler was a great leader, without Hitler, it is safe to say, as I said before, that Germany would not exist now.

 

[Savant 10+ year member]

Originally posted by 97dakota now this is getting stupid. I geuss it has some entertainment value.

just how is it getting stupid? Someone is trying to imply that I don't know the language and therefore am making 'false' statements.. Well, truth is, I DO know the language, and everything I've said about this whole "stupid" Hitler thing is accurate..

If your 'buddies' wouldn't try to pick at this stuff as a method of trying to diminish my credibility then we wouldn't get this far..

But, as LWW pointed out.. they were all madmen.. and we can't have the 'powerful' weapons of today's age in their hands.. they can cause a LOT more damage than even Hitler could have done (think if he would have had a Nuke, or a bio that he could have dropped over most other nations that would spread and wipe out almost entire populations.. not a comforting thought)..

Not to mention, this particular 'round' was about some of us being able to see things in history that others are trying to refute.. and a good part of 'we need to go to war' is based on knowing what can happen if we "don't"... per se'.. I think there are other alternatives.. some do not..