What a...

Also keep in mind that all federal government departments are allocated a budget and if they don't spend it all, they will not be allocated the same or more the next fiscal year...soooooooo...what do you think they do if they actually "saved" money in a fiscal year? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. And as my family is one of the 2% that pays more than 50% of the annual federal income taxes, I'd say we should get a much larger say in how the federal government spends OUR money than some moonbat puke in college. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

Try to remember, it's not the federal governments money, it is MY money. I earned it and if you are going to take it from me, you had better spend it wisely. They don't. Not even fucking close.

And I will say it yet AGAIN...we don't have a REVENUE problem, we have a S-P-E-N-D-I-N-G problem.

 
Also keep in mind that all federal government departments are allocated a budget and if they don't spend it all, they will not be allocated the same or more the next fiscal year...soooooooo...what do you think they do if they actually "saved" money in a fiscal year? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. And as my family is one of the 2% that pays more than 50% of the annual federal income taxes, I'd say we should get a much larger say in how the federal government spends OUR money than some moonbat puke in college. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif
Try to remember, it's not the federal governments money, it is MY money. I earned it and if you are going to take it from me, you had better spend it wisely. They don't. Not even fucking close.

And I will say it yet AGAIN...we don't have a REVENUE problem, we have a S-P-E-N-D-I-N-G problem.
THIS couldnt be more true. Every end of fiscal year, which is October, for federal agencies... The accountants do the math, and figure out how much we have left in our budget... Then we all have to come up with ways to spend the remaining (and there really are some ver STUPID things they get spent on). This isnt because we want to spend it, want the stupid crap we get with it, or even that we dont want to save money.... Its the fact that if we don't spend it, our budget for next year will be cut by that amount. Now, some might say, just let them cut the budget... But just imagine if we did, every year for say 5 years, and then on that 6th year, we have a MUCH more expensive year... Well, then we are shit out of luck...

Not saying it's right, cuz it is rediculous, but it is what it is... they really need to reform the way they do budgeting, as i can almost garuntee that millions, if not billions are wasted on this one facet of budget BS every single year.

 
THIS couldnt be more true. Every end of fiscal year, which is October, for federal agencies... The accountants do the math, and figure out how much we have left in our budget... Then we all have to come up with ways to spend the remaining (and there really are some ver STUPID things they get spent on). This isnt because we want to spend it, want the stupid crap we get with it, or even that we dont want to save money.... Its the fact that if we don't spend it, our budget for next year will be cut by that amount. Now, some might say, just let them cut the budget... But just imagine if we did, every year for say 5 years, and then on that 6th year, we have a MUCH more expensive year... Well, then we are shit out of luck...
Not saying it's right, cuz it is rediculous, but it is what it is... they really need to reform the way they do budgeting, as i can almost garuntee that millions, if not billions are wasted on this one facet of budget BS every single year.
I rest my case. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/imdaman.gif.bc6c552e19aa4ad8c47461144f40eb1a.gif

Thank you sir. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/clap.gif.178cba2c538c68e720c727fcb024b19c.gif

 
I'd say we should get a much larger say in how the federal government spends OUR money than some moonbat puke in college. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif
Let me introduce you to how a democracy works...

(And yes, it is a Democracy)

 

---------- Post added at 09:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 AM ----------

 

It all only adds up to a few billion anyway, guys. Prox's common sense says so.
Don't you "just say so" that it adds up to so much more? What makes your "just say so" so much better than mine? I'm not the one making claims with no evidence whatsoever.

 
I rest my case. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/imdaman.gif.bc6c552e19aa4ad8c47461144f40eb1a.gif
Thank you sir. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/clap.gif.178cba2c538c68e720c727fcb024b19c.gif
You're welcome..

And proxy, i honestly feel like you talk out of your ass most of the time, which is why i can understand holic not even wanting to bother arguing with you. It's not because he's scared, it's mainly the fact that you are an annoying college kid, who thinks he knows everything about the country, the government, and the way things work. What experience do you really have, besides that government tit you've been ******* off of for years?

For those of us who actually have first hand experience with government spending and waste, (most importantly, those of us who actually are federal employees), the amount of wasteful spending that happens in washington is undeniable. You want a few examples, fine:

1. Political appointees: This is perhaps the BIGGEST waste of taxpayer money there is, IMO. You would be amazed at how many useless, and i mean USELESS, positions are filled, everytime there is a regime change. These positions all pay high into the 6 figures, majority of them being 250k+ a year. And the only reason these employees are filling these positions, are because of what they did "for the campaign. MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars a year. Oh, and your beloved Obama... Has created more positions in this category then the previous 4 presidents.

2. Congressional "pet" projects: Every single "mover and shaker" in DC has their own list. This is why, every year, when the final budget for the next year is almost completed, it gets "sidetracked". This "disagreement" period, between the two parties, is really just a ploy, a way to divert attention away from what is really going on. BILLIONS of dollars in allocated funds are then slipped into the budget, so that each rep can have their projects funded... some of which civic listed before. BILLIONS wasted each year.

3. Government contracts: Want to become a millionaire fast? Get into Government contracts. Better yet, become GSA certified... then you can charge whatever the hell you want, and the government will pay it. Once again, BILLIONS wasted each year.

4. Government facility management: Can you tell me why i work in one of the most secure and restricted facilities in DC, yet, every time it rains, we have to cover our computers and documents with plastic, when they just spent millions on having or roof fixed. (of course this is just one single example, but is true across the board). It's not because the contractors who fixed the roof weren't qualified, underpaid, under equipped... It's because, the person who approves these contracts is going to have a nice retirement bonus waiting for them from said contractor... twice removed, of course. If you try to dispute this or say it doesnt happen, you arent just ignorant, your just plain stupid.

These are a very few, select, examples. Point being, there really isn't any other organization out there, that LITERALLY siphens money into a bottomless, worthless pit, then the Fed government (waste, i have come to realize, is too nice of a word for what really goes on). And you want me to pay MORE taxes, from the already obsene amount i pay, from the paycheck i have worked my ass off for the last 15 years to get... Just so you can get some more Federally subsidised education/housing/food? I'm sorry you live in Detroit... i really am. I've been there... i know how rough it is. But i also grew up in Cleveland... which isn't much better. Yet, i actually pulled myself out of the slums, to make something out of myself... and didn't need the Gov tit to do it.

This is why, i have called you ignorant, and stupid.... The ability to articulate a good sentence, does not obstain you from either, sorry.

 
What makes your "just say so" so much better than mine? I'm not the one making claims with no evidence whatsoever.
Uh, yes, you are exactly that person...

Waste exists. I've said it a billion times before here. However, there is no reason to assume it is a significant portion of your debt or deficit. There is no evidence to say there is. And thus, in the same vein as me not believing in a flying spaghetti monster in the sky, I don't think it's a large portion of our spending. Is it a problem? Absolutely. Could we save a few billion if we eliminated real, legitimate waste? Most likely.
Or, do you have any evidence, what so ever, that it adds up to a "few billion"? Are you really so blind to your own hypocrisy? I mean, I did just point out that very fact, not 1 hour ago. But then again, you have displayed an amazingly poor ability to comprehend anything I say, many times in the past.

Again, the list that thevic24 provided in this thread is one I quoted to you, months ago. Your reply back then? You said 'only a few of those are real, and it only adds up to X number of billion dollars'. No counter evidence of your own that the list is bogus, no counter evidence of your own that waste adds up to a "few billion", just your superhuman common sense at work once again. Quit being so obtuse. But then, listening to counter opinions (and facts) might *gasp* make you realize your 19 year old (or is it 20) brain wasn't simply born with all the answers. You might *gasp* realize you are not the economic and political genius you think you are.

Let me refresh your memory...

Here is just a drop in the bucket of the money the goverment has wasted.....
#1 A total of $3 million has been granted to researchers at the University of California at Irvine so that they can play video games such as World of Warcraft. The goal of this “video game research” is reportedly to study how “emerging forms of communication, including multiplayer computer games and online virtual worlds such as World of Warcraft and Second Life can help organizations collaborate and compete more effectively in the global marketplace.”

#2 The U.S. Department of Agriculture gave the University of New Hampshire $700,000 this year to study methane gas emissions from dairy cows.

#3 $615,000 was given to the University of California at Santa Cruz to digitize photos, T-shirts and concert tickets belonging to the Grateful Dead.

#4 A professor at Stanford University received $239,100 to study how Americans use the Internet to find love.

#5 The National Science Foundation spent $216,000 to study whether or not politicians “gain or lose support by taking ambiguous positions.”

#6 The National Institutes of Health spent approximately $442,340 to study the behavior of male prostitutes in Vietnam.

#7 Approximately $1 million of U.S. taxpayer money was used to create poetry for the Little Rock, New Orleans, Milwaukee and Chicago zoos. The goal of the “poetry” is to help raise awareness on environmental issues.

#8 The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs spent $175 million during 2010 to maintain hundreds of buildings that it does not even use. This includes a pink, octagonal monkey house in the city of Dayton, Ohio.

#9 $1.8 million of U.S. taxpayer dollars went for a “museum of neon signs” in Las Vegas, Nevada.

#10 $35 million was reportedly paid out by Medicare to 118 “phantom” medical clinics that never even existed.

#11 The Conservation Commission of Monkton, Vermont got $150,000 from the federal government to construct a “critter crossing”.

#12 In California, one park received $440,000 in federal funds to perform “green energy upgrades” on a building that has not been used for a decade.

#13 $440,955 was spent this past year on an office for former Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert.

#14 One Tennessee library was given $5,000 in federal funds to host a series of video game parties.

#15 The U.S. Census Bureau spent $2.5 million on a television commercial during the Super Bowl that was so poorly produced that virtually nobody understood what is was trying to say.

#16 A professor at Dartmouth University received $137,530 to create a “recession-themed” video game entitled “Layoff”.

#17 The National Science Foundation gave the Minnesota Zoo over $600,000 so that they could develop an online video game called “Wolfquest”.

#18 A pizzeria in Iowa was given $60,000 to renovate the pizzeria’s facade and give it a more “inviting feel”.

#19 The U.S. Department of Agriculture gave one enterprising group of farmers $30,000 to develop a tourist-friendly database of farms that host guests for overnight “haycations”.

#20 National Institutes of Health was given $800,000 in “stimulus funds” to study the impact of a “genital-washing program” on men in South Africa.

#21 Washington spends $92 billion on corporate welfare (excluding TARP) versus $71 billion on homeland security.

#22 Washington will spend $2.6 million training Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly on the job.

#23 The Securities and Exchange Commission spent $3.9 million rearranging desks and offices at its Washington, D.C., headquarters.

#24 The Pentagon recently spent $998,798 shipping two 19-cent washers from South Carolina to Texas and $293,451 sending an 89-cent washer from South Carolina to Florida.

#25 The refusal of many federal employees to fly coach costs taxpayers $146 million annually in flight upgrades.

#26 More than $13 billion in Iraq aid has been classified as wasted or stolen. Another $7.8 billion cannot be accounted for.

#27 Homeland Security employee purchases include 63-inch plasma TVs, iPods, and $230 for a beer brewing kit.

#28 Lawmakers diverted $13 million from Hurricane Katrina relief spending to build a museum celebrating the Army Corps of Engineers — the agency partially responsible for the failed levees that flooded New Orleans.

#29 Washington recently spent $1.8 million to help build a private golf course in Atlanta, Georgia.

Iam sure this could be spent much better.......
 
Uh, yes, you are exactly that person...


Or, do you have any evidence, what so ever, that it adds up to a "few billion"? Are you really so blind to your own hypocrisy? I mean, I did just point out that very fact, not 1 hour ago. But then again, you have displayed an amazingly poor ability to comprehend anything I say, many times in the past.

Again, the list that thevic24 provided in this thread is one I quoted to you, months ago. Your reply back then? You said 'only a few of those are real, and it only adds up to X number of billion dollars'. No counter evidence of your own that the list is bogus, no counter evidence of your own that waste adds up to a "few billion", just your superhuman common sense at work once again. Quit being so obtuse. But then, listening to counter opinions (and facts) might *gasp* make you realize your 19 year old (or is it 20) brain wasn't simply born with all the answers. You might *gasp* realize you are not the economic and political genius you think you are.

Let me refresh your memory...
And one of the biggest things i don't think he gets, is that the list posted, is really just a drop in the bucket of federal waste.

 
Its funny how Im the one nitpicking "every fucking word" you say, when you dance around the fact that you said I was against welfare, and then claimed you didnt mean it that way. And then you "nit pick" whether or not Im was "debating" hispls.
Holy. ****. YOU'RE THE ONE WHO CRIED ABOUT MY USE OF THE WORD DEBATE. I then defended myself.

And FFS, I DID NOT SAY YOU WERE AGAINST WELFARE. I used it as a fucking EXAMPLE. TO ILLUSTRATE A POINT. You can add intentionally misrepresenting what I say to that list there. At least I think intentionally, because like you, I don't think you're that stupid. And again, even more arguing about what I said.

and have zero personal experience with govt waste
OH. Now I get it. Your "say so" is much more valuable than mine because you've PERSONALLY OVERSEEN a horrible, horrible example of $300 of government waste, which, as you know, I contest is legitimate waste to begin with. So because of your $300 encounter with the government, have you been given god's gift of knowledge that waste is the leading cause of our deficit?

And that list is merely an example of the waste we know of. But of course, your superhuman common sense is proof its only a "few billion" total, so we dont need to address the spending problems, just demand someone other than yourself pay more.
Versus your superhuman sense that it's so much bigger?

Has the govt paid for you to take that economics class yet?
Yes. Taking it now. Is that what you thought?

what I and others must provide (facts, proof, specificity) while you simply provide opinion (A "few billion").
You have provided zero facts and zero proof that waste is a significant part of our deficit that must be dealt with immediately before our 9% unemployment (that, by comparison, is no problem at all really). You won't even provide any specificity whatsoever with regard to how much you think waste actually is.

And no, I don't have to provide proof that waste is not a significant part of our budget in the same way that I don't have to provide proof that there isn't an invisible flying spaghetti monster in the sky. The onus to provide proof is on you, not me. You've provided proof that it exists. Based on that proof, I agree that legitimate waste obviously exists.

you always seem to let me down by not using that good communication skill to derive a logical point, hold a topic, comprehend meaning from others, or remain sincere. Just when I think my respect for you could get no lower, you revert back to your same old games and remind me why I get bored with going in circles with you over the same material thread after thread after thread.
We can't hold a topic and no go in circles not because of some deficiency I have, it's because, like I said, you nit pick every single word I say, then of course I defend myself and we end up arguing over what I said (notice, never what you said, because I'm not petty and do not nit pick) instead of whatever topic we were arguing. THis, right now, is 100% proof positive of this. This is the problem, for anyone to see. But, of course, no one comes to defend me because no one shares my ideology here.

Someone's getting emotional.
Yes, your bullshit is ungodfully frustrating.

But I'm still having fun //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 
Our system is not a democracy. The two wolves and a sheep example is a simple demonstration of why we avoided raw democracy.

Two thugs and a victim voting on who gets mugged is another. (and looks a lot like the current "**** the rich" debate.)

 
Here's a link to a more comprehensive source for that list: 50 Examples of Government Waste

Here's a link to more govt waste, govt over-spending, govt employee fraud, and govt incompetence: 12 Outrageous Wastes of Taxpayers’ Money | Shrinkage Is Good

Here's a link to "real or fake", an impromptu game show to determine if outrageous govt funded programs are true or not. Not really high dollar items in the big picture, but a small example of the ridiculous lengths our govt spending waste reaches:



Here's a link to the sequel to "real or fake": Government Waste: Real or Fake, Which Spending Example is Real? &laquo Publius Forum

Here's a link discussing the Solyndra scandal, in which $535 million was granted to a company making solar panels, which recently went bankrupt: Solyndra scandal exposes the lie of government 'investment' | Examiner Editorial | Opinion | Washington Examiner

Here's a link to Senator Tom Coburn's "wastebook" report which specifies some examples of wasteful govt spending: http://coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=774a6cca-18fa-4619-987b-a15eb44e7f18

Here's a link discussing $17 billion in unemployment fraud from one year: More Disgusting Examples of Government Waste, Fraud, and Abuse « International Liberty

Here's a link to one of the more infamous 'bridges to nowhere', the Gravina Island Bridge, which is a perfect example of porkbarrel spending for political gain, rather than logistical sense: Gravina Island Bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about some info on the 'Big Dig'? A textbook example of pork barrel spending, inefficient govt cooperation with itself, gross misconduct, and incompetent cost analysis: Big Dig - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shall I go on Prox? I can do this all day. Now, lets see your 'facts' that govt spending waste only adds up for a "few billion", since turn about is fair play.

 
Holy. ****. YOU'RE THE ONE WHO CRIED ABOUT MY USE OF THE WORD DEBATE. I then defended myself.
And FFS, I DID NOT SAY YOU WERE AGAINST WELFARE. I used it as a fucking EXAMPLE. TO ILLUSTRATE A POINT. You can add intentionally misrepresenting what I say to that list there. At least I think intentionally, because like you, I don't think you're that stupid. And again, even more arguing about what I said.

OH. Now I get it. Your "say so" is much more valuable than mine because you've PERSONALLY OVERSEEN a horrible, horrible example of $300 of government waste, which, as you know, I contest is legitimate waste to begin with. So because of your $300 encounter with the government, have you been given god's gift of knowledge that waste is the leading cause of our deficit?

Versus your superhuman sense that it's so much bigger?

Yes. Taking it now. Is that what you thought?

You have provided zero facts and zero proof that waste is a significant part of our deficit that must be dealt with immediately before our 9% unemployment (that, by comparison, is no problem at all really). You won't even provide any specificity whatsoever with regard to how much you think waste actually is.

And no, I don't have to provide proof that waste is not a significant part of our budget in the same way that I don't have to provide proof that there isn't an invisible flying spaghetti monster in the sky. The onus to provide proof is on you, not me. You've provided proof that it exists. Based on that proof, I agree that legitimate waste obviously exists.

We can't hold a topic and no go in circles not because of some deficiency I have, it's because, like I said, you nit pick every single word I say, then of course I defend myself and we end up arguing over what I said (notice, never what you said, because I'm not petty and do not nit pick) instead of whatever topic we were arguing. THis, right now, is 100% proof positive of this. This is the problem, for anyone to see. But, of course, no one comes to defend me because no one shares my ideology here.

Yes, your bullshit is ungodfully frustrating.

But I'm still having fun //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif
Actually, you were the one who "cried" when I said I wasn't "debating" hispls. Try to keep up with the convo.

And FFS, I DID NOT SAY YOU WERE AGAINST WELFARE.
I know exactly what you said, I quoted it word for word. Here, let me quote it again for all to see:

You got mad at me because you thought I implied that you were against welfare (which, let's be honest, isn't much of stretch)
So you want your cake and eat it too. You want to say its "not much of a stretch" to say Im against welfare, but also claim you never said Im against welfare. Im confident the people reading this have enough of a brain to see through your thin veil of dishonesty about what you meant by 'not much of a stretch'.

And your latest attempt to wiggle out of this foot-in-mouth moment, that Im trying to derail the topic by just 'nit picking' your wording, is a farce as well. My point was all I had to say was I feel less people should rely on welfare as a permanent means of revenue, and you twisted that, MY wording, into it 'not being much a stretch' to say Im against welfare as a whole. Point being that you make having a reasonable conversation with you impossible, because its impossible to get you to understand/admit to my not-so-complex point, because your extreme exaggeration of what I said is much easier to argue against, than what I actually said. And again, one of your typical dodge/duck/dive/dip/dodge tactics to never admit you are wrong, even when its so plainly obvious. You called me petty last night. My definition of a petty person is one who is unable/unwilling to admit they made a mistake, even one as innocuous as "you're right, I shouldnt have extrapolated your comment to suggest such an extremist position as you are against welfare". You really have a lot of ego wrapped up in these 'debates' here, pretty pathetic.

My 'horrible horrible' example of a $300 spending outrage, is one more personal example than you have. So you can downplay it all you want, even though I have never claimed that $300 makes or breaks our national debt, but is merely one personal example of it, but the truth is you are (once again) relying on your own common sense over facts, links, and even personal examples. Your opinion is of higher value to you than is experience, evidence, and anything else that contradicts what you want to believe.

No, I wont provide any specificity as to what I think federal waste amounts to, in total, because almost be definition, its covered up. I could guess as to what it is, but unlike you, I dont like to make generalized remarks as if they are facts. So the only alternative is to provide (numerous) examples, of which I have done. You have provided no facts, no links, no evidence... only your erroneous opinion of it being "a few billion".

And no, I don't have to provide proof that waste is not a significant part of our budget
No, of course you dont have to provide proof. All you think you have to do is demand proof, negate that proof (in the form of examples) when presented, and then counter with your own opinion that previously resided in your ass. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif That's how you play this game, the double standard way. You say nobody here shares your ideology, that's because your ideology resides only in your head. You might garner some support for your opinions if they were more than that, by providing facts to back up your figures. But you cannot provide those facts, so you cling to your made up numbers, claim no responsibility for proving them, and then wonder why nobody agrees with you.

We only end up arguing over what you said, because you make outrageous claims, and when I use your own words to shove them back in your mouth, you claim you didnt mean it the way it sounded. No, you didnt say Im against welfare, you merely said its 'not a stretch'. You must really think we are stupid if you think we buy any of this nonsense and spin that you use to guide you through these debates. We aren't that stupid, and that's why people here dont share your ideology, its amazingly stupid and has no factual backing what so ever. So again Im not calling you an idiot, Im just saying its not much of a stretch to call you an idiot. Damn, Im glad you didnt get me to lower myself to the point of calling you an idiot.

 
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