Throwing My Plan To The Experts For Advice.

[Databyter 10+ year member]

I'm good with tech stuff but haven't paid much attention to car audio in many years so i've been doing alot of reading and researching.

I want a full range system that is more focused on clarity and quality and dynamic headroom than bump or noise. I listen to all kinds of music including Classic rock, Jazz, Blues, folk, and classical so I'm after tight accurate reproduction with nice tight bass and excellent mid and highs... Without spending a small fortune. Ok so the small fortune part isn't looking good right now.

I've got a subaru wagon and I've put Alpine 80 Watt RMS (250 Peak) in the doors and cargo shoulders and replace the head unit with a lower-mid range Sony that unfortunately has only 4 channel pre-outs with 2 volt signal the rear channel can be switched to subwoofer on the head unit.

I wasn't happy with my upgrade from factory sound so I realized that my Sony power rating wasn't really 52 Watts per channel (I was looking at Peak) and was seriously under-driving my Alpines.

So now I'm upgrading again. I just purchased,

JL Audio G Series G4500 4 channel AB Amp for the Alpines (still shipping).

I'm looking at also adding to the low end with a JL Audio G1700 D class mono Amp (about 300 RMS @ 4 Ohms) to drive a sealed enclosure,

JL Audio CS110RG-W3v3 (a 10 inch 100-500 wattRMS). This is a rear firing unit shaped to go behind the back seats facing out the hatchback

So here's my questions.

Generally hows this plan sound for my needs as stated above? (I'm not looking to shake the parking lot at the beach on a daily basis but I want some rich sounding tunes that I can crank up now and then when the time and place is right and considerate. I want all my music to sound good at all volumes, doors open or shut. I want my low end to reflect the recording and the accurate notes and octaves, not the port tuned bump).

I bought a 4 Ga. wiring kit for the first Amp, but since I have two will one 4 Ga. lead wire from the batt. be enough. I probably won't drive this too hard so I'm thinking it should be fine. It's just that I noticed it's kind of hard to find a distribution block with equal sizes going in and out, and the JL specs say I must use at least 4GA for both of these amps.

Secondly since I'm on a budget and I'm getting the 4 Channel at least a few weeks to a month before I get the other sub amp I was wondering if it would hurt my 4 channel to run the sub with 2 of the channels and all 4 4 Ohm speakers with the other two (2 Ohms per channel). Is that a good way to blow something out? At least this way I'd have control of sub volume on my head unit since it only has front and rear out.

(Of course when I get the other Amp I'd re-wire it to one speaker per output)

How important for quality and noise reduction to have a higher voltage preamp voltage. I was looking at head units today to find a better one (with 6Channel Pre-outs so I have fade capability AND sub control) and I noticed that most of the better ones have 4 to 6 volt signals, whereas mine only has 2 volts, and probably less since I'l have to possibly bridge it depending on how I wire the channels to Amps.

If I don't get another head unit, then what I'l have to work with is 4 channels of preouts. I'm thinking I'd have to either bridge one pair (probably with the four channel amp input settings) so that my front signal is used to amplify all 4 of my Alpines. Then the other 2 channels can be input into my sub amp.

This means I'd have no ability to Front/rear fade my Alpine 2 ways, but I could contol my Sub from the head unit.

Is there any advantage in plugging all 4 channels into the 4 channel amp with full front/rear fade ability and then using the pass through pre-out to power the subwoofer? I would have to probably buy the Amp remote volume controller if I did that, but maybe it's worth it.

I'l probably have to edit this post a bit to make it shorter and more clear, and maybe add a question or so. Thanks for looking.

Click to read more...

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

tl/dr

 

[grimreper912003 5,000+ posts]

Well you did it backwards. You bought then asked.

The Alpines are not great at Sound quality but they can be okay. Install is much more then the equipment used. For your front stage, I would look into sound deadening before moving forward. Secondskin, Dynamat, and fatmat all work. Obviously price differs between brands. I have worked with Dynamat Extreme and Second Skin Damplifier Pro and I like both.

Next step would be to move onto the substage. That amp you picked will be fine if you are going for matching amps. The sub, I would look into. JL makes a good product, but the problem is you pay a lot for a name brand. I would look around the forums for other advice before purchasing the JL sub. I would also get in contact with Dave over at TeamPSI as he can build a sub custom tailored to your needs. While its pricey, its worth every penny. I have also seen people using Creative Sounds Solutions with good luck. Ciaonzo (Shane) currently has a beautiful TC sounds driver up for sale. Its priced very nicely if I recall correctly and I would expect it to outpreform the JL anyday.

For the wire, 4awg should be fine. It would be best if you could get 1/0awg as you will be pulling some current. If price is the issue look into knukonceptz KLMX wire. Its not the most flexable but it does work okay. Ideal situation would be 1/0awg main run, branching off into 4awg amp runs. You may have to add a second battery to support the system as well. Small Kenetics or batcaps would be great.

When it comes the the HU, I would advise in getting a new headunit with higher RCA voltages, a nice crossover system and 6 channel RCA's for a better control.

Hope this helps some!

 

[grimreper912003 5,000+ posts]

Here is the driver I refrenced: http://caraudio.com/forum/car-audio-classifieds/466510-12-tc-sounds-tc1000-d4.html

Would do very nicely in a small to mid size ported enclosure with a low tuning, or a sealed enclousre (would actually be best for your goal)

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

Well you did it backwards. You bought then asked.
The Alpines are not great at Sound quality but they can be okay. Install is much more then the equipment used. For your front stage, I would look into sound deadening before moving forward. Secondskin, Dynamat, and fatmat all work. Obviously price differs between brands. I have worked with Dynamat Extreme and Second Skin Damplifier Pro and I like both.

Next step would be to move onto the substage. That amp you picked will be fine if you are going for matching amps. The sub, I would look into. JL makes a good product, but the problem is you pay a lot for a name brand. I would look around the forums for other advice before purchasing the JL sub. I would also get in contact with Dave over at TeamPSI as he can build a sub custom tailored to your needs. While its pricey, its worth every penny.

I have also seen people using Creative Sounds Solutions with good luck. Ciaonzo (Shane) currently has a beautiful TC sounds driver up for sale. Its priced very nicely if I recall correctly and I would expect it to outpreform the JL anyday.

Hope this helps some!

Well, I wish I knew about this forum before I went shopping. The Alpines got some decent reviews but I'm sure I could have done much better.

haven't actually bought the sub amp, or the sub yet. I have just narrowed it down somewhat, but I'm still open. I am able to get a fairly good deal on one. The 4 Channel AB Amp is shipping.

I do have all of my doors apart at the moment and I'm looking at strip and peel and carpet padding to deaden them up. It's cheap and if it doesn't work I can upgrade it.

 

[grimreper912003 5,000+ posts]

I would do it right the first time. Why spend $50 to do it the wrong way, then $100 to do it the right way?

Second Skin: Damplifier Pro - Automotive Sound Deadener CLD Vibration damping mat - See what all the fuss is about

A trunk pack will be more then enough to do both doors well plus have some for the hatch lid and other areas.

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

I'm on the site now (second skin). It's a pretty nice website. I don't want to spend what I don't have at the moment, but your right it's actually a small part of the overall investment and there is nothing more annoying than vehicle noise, tinniness, and buzzing in an otherwise well designed and powered system.

I'll check it out. I'm going to have to take half the darn car apart anyway to wire it, and I don't want to do it twice for twice the money by going too cheap.

Although I've heard the strip and peel works well for vibration, I still need some dampening, and if the kit has both it might save me a few bucks to get it that way.

Any thoughts on the wiring options I have? I could kick myself for not researching when I bought that head unit. Whats the point of only 4 channels pre-outs if you have a station wagon.

Another thought on using roofing materials is that if you don't seal them afterwards your car will smell bad.

 

[grimreper912003 5,000+ posts]

IAny thoughts on the wiring options I have? I could kick myself for not researching when I bought that head unit. Whats the point of only 4 channels pre-outs if you have a station wagon.

For the wire, 4awg should be fine. It would be best if you could get 1/0awg as you will be pulling some current. If price is the issue look into knukonceptz KLMX wire. Its not the most flexable but it does work okay. Ideal situation would be 1/0awg main run, branching off into 4awg amp runs. You may have to add a second battery to support the system as well. Small Kenetics or batcaps would be great.

When it comes the the HU, I would advise in getting a new headunit with higher RCA voltages, a nice crossover system and 6 channel RCA's for a better control.

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[Databyter 10+ year member]

I just found this.

Amazon.com: Kenwood Excelon KDC-X494 In-Dash CD/MP3/WMA/iPod Receiver with USB/Aux Input: Electronics

Great price for what qualities it has.

The only downside is I kinda wanted a built in HD radio reciever. It seems all the heads I like that have it don't meet my other requirements.

This one is cheap enough that I could actually afford it now, especially if I can sell my 6 month Old Sony.

Ok Now I found this one, it meets ALL of my requirements.

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-DEH-P7200HD-Receiver-Display-Control/dp/B00364OXWS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1270882359&sr=8-1

Is Pioneer still considered very good for a head Unit. How do these two stack against each other generally brand wise.