thoughts on krell amps?

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

Speakers are going to make a much bigger difference in the scope of things.

yah but when i paid over 3 grand for mines and they retail for close 4k and i only have 2 k to spend i doubt i can find better sounding speakers for 2k

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

to me the rotel did help sq in certain ways but mostly it just made my setup louder. and me i really dont want it to be louder i just want more of a warm sound.

If you tried a more powerful amp and it just made it louder, that implies the

comparison amps didn't add audible coloration to the signal path. If you

want a warm sound then you are looking for signal processing on the electronics

end, perhaps in the form of an EQ *or* you need speakers that give you that

sonic character. It's cheaper to make the sound 'warm' on the source side

by using an EQ than to buy expensive amplifiers. You need to mess with

the frequency response and gremlinize it.

You also said you don't want the system louder. Do you blame the sound system

for being too loud or do you blame the human controlling the volume knob?

.................. hehehehe ..................

i doubt i can find better sounding speakers for 2k

That's the problem. If you want to improve SQ, finding better speakers becomes

more problematic as the price soars beyond imagination. If you can't

afford $25k - $50k commercial speakers, they try to capture SQ by means of

electronics hoping to score big, but the big score is never really as big as it

could be.

That's why the DIY speaker crowd is large, people want the $50k sound

for $2.5k - $5k, DIY style. Then hooking up any reasonably good amp

will do the job well. Fit and finish can be sacrificed vs. pretty store speakers if the sound rules.

Even though I recommended QSC PLX amps in PM, realistically many

times 'system design' is more important than the individual pieces. For example,

I could design a custom sound system for someone using lower cost Crown XLS

amps as long as I know the customer was satisfied with the speaker choice.

I use PLX because I drive the system hard at very low impedances and I want

the amp to be capable of operating way below published spec.

BTW, I just saw new pics of XLS version D amps, looks improved over the

old design. It might actually drive a subwoofer now, rofl.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=842859

Most people get annoyed with proamp fans, the wind noise bugs them,

many do fan replacements for a reasonable fee. I didn't do any fan mods

to mine, it doesn't bug me.

I think a stack of proamps is more aggressive looking than a single Krell

or exotic amp.

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/xti.jpg

 

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

^^^ where did he come from lol wow lots of good advice! thanks

oh yah and fans bug the ish out of me. any little noise that isnt part of the dvd/cd makes me go nuts, the fan i added are a tad noisy but im hoping in stepping down the voltage to 10 volts from 12 volts will help? if not any fan recommendations that are super quiet? (their to **** hot air out my tv stand)

 

[Beat_Dominator 5,000+ posts]

Like I said before, if YOU liked the sound of the Krell, then go for it. You do not need to buy better speakers first, people would be amazed what can be done with a system where the front end is given the chance to get the most out of a set of speakers.

 

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

Like I said before, if YOU liked the sound of the Krell, then go for it. You do not need to buy better speakers first, people would be amazed what can be done with a system where the front end is given the chance to get the most out of a set of speakers.

yah im gonna go pick it up later //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif its cool having a big rack and stuff but im not trying to impress people by looks to much rather do it by the sound even though most people dont know what good sound is... but sound quality is subjective

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Like I said before, if YOU liked the sound of the Krell, then go for it. You do not need to buy better speakers first, people would be amazed what can be done with a system where the front end is given the chance to get the most out of a set of speakers.

Indeed. Processors/Receivers have a big affect on the sound of a system. Not as important as speakers but it plays a role.

yah im gonna go pick it up later //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif its cool having a big rack and stuff but im not trying to impress people by looks to much rather do it by the sound even though most people dont know what good sound is... but sound quality is subjective

The only person you have to impress is yourself... Sound Quality is subjective to a point, but it is made up of some basic elements that everyone can agree on...

 

[urwhatueati8god 10+ year member]

You also might want to give some consideration to Primare amplifiers as well. They're not the greatest, but they almost definitely have a warmer sound than what your current Krell puts out. It probably won't impress on the Def. Techs though.

 

[1loudsuv 10+ year member]

You also might want to give some consideration to Primare amplifiers as well. They're not the greatest, but they almost definitely have a warmer sound than what your current Krell puts out. It probably won't impress on the Def. Techs though.

i like the amp i have but the speakers i dunno. ive been thinking of dumping them.

but that wont be till the day i have money for some 800 series b&ws which wont be for a very long time....the krell ****** me dry i dont even have money to pay some bills this week //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/blackeye.gif.66a1670f5aaf7f406e783a63e3387dc5.gif

dam hobbys and them being so expensive and even worst its mother day weekend. time to ask the daddy for some money.

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

Best kept secret in home/HT audio {not a secret in pro audio}.

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_CE-4000-1.jpg

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_CE-4000-2.jpg

A guy on AVS just score two of them for his monster HT subwoofer project,

those are his amp pics. He replaced the fan with a *quiet* fan, all is sweet.

Guess how much he paid on the used market? $660 each. What a deal.

Why is this amp so cool?

Universal SMPS + PFC + BCA

Universal = works with 120VAC or 220VAC input without doing any mods.

{if 220VAC used, the amp will do a real 3600 watts}.

SMPS = switch mode power supply akin to car amps which use SMPS. More

efficient power supply, lighter weight - no need for huge transformers.

BCA = akin to full range class D, very efficient design. Crown K series and Crown

Itech is also BCA output stage.

PFC = Power Factor Correction, in a nutshell, you will get rated power even

if your lame house voltage sags under load which causes non-PFC amps to

output much less power than advertised. PFC is akin to a regulated power supply.

The Challenge

Find me a home audio amp that is SMPS, PFC, and BCA {or equivalent},

~3,600 watts of real power for under $700.

/// evil ///

FYI, you probably heard of Crown K1 and K2 amps.

Guts here;

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_K2.jpg

People loved these amps and they paid $1000 for them, maybe $500 today

on the used market.

K series is only BCA, not SMPS, not PFC and if you look at the guts, it has

no real heatsinks inside. The stupid chassis is the heatsink. The CE4000

has real heatsinks and a wind tunnel design.

CE1000 or CE2000 are not the same recipes as CE4000. Those are generic designs.

The CE4000 was a test bed for what is known today as Crown Itech. They made

this amp and disguised it under the CE name to test it in the field. It's discontinued

now and Itech's emerged. They added DSP to the recipe and now you pay huge

premiums to get that SMPS + PFC + BCA AND DSP all in one amp chassis

under the Itech models.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Have you heard of a budget?

I could have blown my whole college fund on some 802D and Classe, but i didn't. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[envengineer 10+ year member]

Best kept secret in home/HT audio {not a secret in pro audio}.
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_CE-4000-1.jpg

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_CE-4000-2.jpg

A guy on AVS just score two of them for his monster HT subwoofer project,

those are his amp pics. He replaced the fan with a *quiet* fan, all is sweet.

Guess how much he paid on the used market? $660 each. What a deal.

I've seen similar setups using similar amps where the amps are just mounted in a different room than the listener. This is especially effective in big IB setups because you can mount the amp with the subwoofers and have them relatively isolated from the listener. It's not a big step to do the same thing with the other amps as well.

With the ability to use IR cables/RF/etc you can keep most of the system out of sight where it doesn't take up living space, doesn't get damaged and you can keep all of your wiring accessible if you rack mount everything. The only thing that needs to be in the listening area is the CD transport so you can swap discs.

To me, there is a lot to be said for glorious sound with minimalist presentation. Just a pair of towers visible to the listener.

 

[ballstothewall 10+ year member]

The Challenge

Find me a home audio amp that is SMPS, PFC, and BCA {or equivalent},

~3,600 watts of real power for under $700.

I got 3kw for under 400.

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

I got 3kw for under 400.

Which amp did you get that is -> SMPS, PFC, and BCA {or equivalent} ?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

... stolen amps don't count //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Have you heard of a budget?
I could have blown my whole college fund on some 802D and Classe, but i didn't.

Isn't $660 less than a $3K Krell amp? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fro.gif.c695f1f814b01c4ad99fe7f8cccadd29.gif

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

I was talking to 1loudsuv there... Not you thy... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[thylantyr 10+ year member]

dam hobbys and them being so expensive

Learn to DIY in spite that it does take some time to develop basic

skills. You need to invest in some tools, you need a garage, practice.

If you can't right now, save the mullah until you are ready to execute order 66.

Go fully active and trim a few light years off your journey and bypass the Borg.

Get some headphones to hold you over //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif