Thinking about going all Dayton...

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

I've been really interested in Dayton Audio's no frills-performance based approach to their speakers and subwoofers, and I have been thinking about going with nothing but Dayton. They're a lot cheaper than the speakers most people compare them to, so I have high hopes.

So far, I've come up with this:

I have an '03 Mitsubishi Galant GTZ with some AudioTechnix 60mil on the front doors. I'm going to take it all off(because I covered them completely, without realizing that I could have used less for basically the same results). I'm going to be filling up all holes with fiberglass, while using CCF and MLV on the outer piece of metal. I don't know if I need to do the same thing on the backside of the inner piece of metal, and if someone can clarify I'd be very grateful. Anyway, I'm going to use CCF/MLV all along my firewall -- with my dash out so I cover ALL of it -- to keep out engine noise/heat, all over my roof and back doors. I plan on getting a new carpet with a thick soundproofing pad underneath it, and if that isn't sufficient for road noise, then I'll add a bit of MLV. I will use some kind of damper on everything that rattles as I install the equipment.

I will be experimenting with the placement of my front separates, starting with some fiberglassed kick panels with a 7" woofer and tweeter, crossed to meet somewhere between 1-1.5KHz. I had a factory 3-1/2" center channel speaker in the middle of my dash, but I will most likely not be utilizing it. The rear speakers are 6x9s in the rear deck as of now, but with the setup I'm thinking about, I won't be able to use them. I'll probably have to cut holes in my rear doors for something. Here's where I feel I'll need the most help. I'm looking at 3" full ranges, 4" full ranges, and even 6-1/2" point sources(all links will be at the end of the post). There are two reasons that I want speakers for the rear; I have people in the back seat often who hate when I have the fader all the way to the front, and because my music feels lacking when I only have front speakers. I will be using some kind of four channel for the separates up front, and possibly a 2 channel on the back(I can't possibly imagine finding some kind of six channel that would work with my driver choices).

So for my substage, I'm thinking about either two 12" Titanic Mark IIIs in the trunk, or two 15" IB385s IB in the rear deck. I'm greatly leaning toward IB because my trunk's not that large and I need some space, and because I feel that having the subs in the trunk will add quite a bit of unwanted dampening and I'll be unhappy. As for the amplifier, I've got no idea. I'm taking all suggestions in this area as well.

My goals as of now are to have a relatively flat response from 20-15KHz, with as little distortion as possible. I can't really have much of an SQ goal at the moment without spending several hundred dollars alone on a signal processor. I'll eventually get some kind of nice headunit/processor combo, complete with 24-bit DACs, time alignment, and separate EQs, but that's just not in the budget at the moment. I play mostly lossless music ranging from jazz, to classical, to prog rock, to pop, to hip-hop, etc. I listen to a WIDE variety of music, and want my sound system to perform well with everything.

The point of this topic is for the small amount of advice I mentioned in the above paragraphs, and general opinions on this idea.

Front Stage:

2xReference 8ohm 7" woofer(Dayton Audio RS180-8 7" Reference Woofer)

2xReference 4ohm 1-1/8" tweeter(Dayton Audio RS28F-4 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter)

Substage:

2xInfinite Baffle 8ohm 15" subwoofer(Dayton IB385-8 15" Infinite Baffle Subwoofer)

OR 2xTitanic Mark III 4ohm 12" subwoofer(Dayton Audio TIT320C-4 12" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm)

Rear:

2xPoint Source 8ohm 6-1/2" full-range speaker(Dayton PS180-8 6-1/2" Point Source Full-Range Neo Driver)

OR 2xReference 4ohm 3" full-range speaker(Dayton Audio RS75-4 3" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm)

OR 2xReference 8ohm 4" full-range speaker(Dayton Audio RS100-8 4" Reference Full-Range Driver)

Click to read more...

 

[slammedincouch 10+ year member]

There's only one thing you're missing bro...

 

[DonH 5,000+ posts]

front stahe would do well. sensitivity ratings on the mids and tweets are a near match. i say go for it

 

[Imtjnotu 5,000+ posts]

I just finihed purchasing my all dayton front stage...reference 7" refrence 4" and the silk dome tweets..

 

[TheUnderFighter 10+ year member]

Sounds very well thought out, and I say it's a great idea, as long as you have a build log with lots of pics The only problem I see with the 15" woofers is cutting that large of a hole in the rear deck.

And several of the speakers have an 8ohm voice coil, as well as extremely low power handling capabilities... But I'm sure you're aware of that. Plus with all the deadening you'll be doing it should make for a quiet ride

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i disagree you get the same results with less deadener. 100% coverage is better than partial coverage. i know what people on forums say, but they don't really know what they are talking about. take it from an acoustics engineer who does vibration analysis - you can't have too much on a speaker enclosure. if i could build my speaker walls out of concrete, i would. for example, we used two 100% layers of BXT II on the Scion tC doors because one layer wasn't enough. further, with patches of deadener you create multiple structural modes which increases the number of fundamental resonance frequencies.

MLV needs to be decoupled from the surface to be effective. you need something resilient - like foam or a rebound layer between your MLV and the vehicle floor/walls. deadener isn't sufficient. you mention a soundproofing pad on the floor - but that is just MLV with a rebound layer. you want 1 lb/sf MLV on the floors decoupled by a 1/4" or so. on the doors, 0.5 lb/sf may make more sense due to weight, it could be decoupled by 1/8" foam. with MLV you need 100% coverage. just like the crack under a door lets sound though, so does seams/cracks in the MLV. I design and implement noise proofing solutions for the building/construction industry. the firewall MLV can help with road and engine noise - most cars already have MLV there. the wheel wells are the main source for tire noise - addressing those makes a huge difference as well.

as it relates to vehicle noise, there are a few areas that you aren't addressing (and probably can't). #1 is the glass. you want a laminated glass for noise proofing. you have that on the windshield (for safety), but not on the sides. in a serious build, i would invest in new laminated side glass for the windows. #2 is the door seals. those seals aren't ideal and wear over time. you really want a pair of seals to create a dead airspace. that is how soundproof doors are achieved - dual seals.

squelching rattles isn't done with deadener. it's done with 1/16" or 1/8" foam or felt. you need something soft between things that are hard - like trim panels. this is where buying a quality car makes this process easier. quality cars come with foam gaskets on all trim panels, even the clips have a ring of foam. starting with a cheaper car makes the process of squelching rattles much more time intensive.

as for your plans with Dayton speakers - it sounds like a good plan. they are good quality drivers. I would run a 3 way with the mid in the kick and 7" in the door. getting good midbass in the kicks is very difficult and requires a lot of fabrication and permanent vehicle modifications. midbass in doors is easy thanks to airspace (once doors are sealed and deadened). you can certainly try your plan, and there have been many successful kick midbass builds (most used fiberglass enclosures that were outside of the cabin).

i started with midbass in the kicks (lots of modifications to the vehicle) and while i had perfect seals and very rigid baffles, i introduced structural resonance in the floor. i would have had to add a lot of mass to the floor to lower the resonance below the range of the midbass. it wasn't feasible. having a 3-way up front solved all of my problems. the door midbass is low and deep. the kick midrange plays a wide range and has the benefit of minimal PLD. the apillar tweeters keep the stage height up and my crossover point is above the ITD/IID cutoff.

for the rears, i like door locations for rear passengers. no one likes a speaker behind their head. a full range 4" driver (Dayton RS) would be sufficient for the rear passengers as they'll hear the front midbass just fine. i'd put them in the doors aimed at the opposite C-pillar, above knee level. don't worry about PLD for them.

as far as subs go, 15" IB is going to require a huge rear deck that will need to have substantial structural modifications. basically, the IB baffle would need to be supported independent of the rear deck to prevent structural excitement/resonance. if you are willing to do that, then you'll be very happy with the results - including the rear glass loading.

my buck-o-five

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i would like to use this on a car floor (rebound layer down)

http://www.soundsense.com/pdfs/Vibramat.pdf

1 lb/sf MLV

http://www.soundsense.com/pdfs/NOISEOUT1.pdf

2 lb/sf MLV

http://www.soundsense.com/pdfs/NoiseOut2.pdf

Green Glue - for sandwiching between wood layers - i.e. speaker baffles.

Sound Isolation | Home Soundproofing Walls | Active Noise Reduction Systems | Noise Control Products -- Green Glue Company

Resource to purchase many of these acoustical products

Soundproofing Material, Noise Control Curtains, Acoustical Panels, Soundproof Walls, Foam

 

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

The person I was hoping to reply, did so. Thank you so much, k_h_a. I don't have experience with different amounts of damper, and covered my doors with two layers. I guess I will go ahead and keep that there.

I didn't necessarily plan to go with a 3-way setup, but I have been considering it for sure. Maybe I'll go ahead and go all out. As for the glass and door seals, I would like to soundproof as much as possible. I think I'll send you a PM when I get on my computer so I can ask you a few questions.

I knew about MLV needing to be decoupled, but I didn't know which combination of MLV/CCF would work. And thank you for the links! I will definitely be using foam for the trim pieces, and I planned on supporting the IB baffle liberally, so that's not much of an issue - although I appreciate your input.

As for everyone else, I will for sure make a build log with plenty of pictures. Imtjnotu, tell me how you like the Daytons. I was considering buying the 7" woofers for sale a few days ago, but you beat me. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif