The Bigger The Better

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

RL-P has a 3" coil... and rated for more XMAX... but it bottoms out earlier than the type R and thermally handles a little less power.

If you are bottoming either of them out, then you are well beyond Xmax anyways....

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[Raven 10+ year member]

I hate to dig my own grave, but I'm gonna go with loud&low on this one. While the VC diameter, magnet size, and surround aren't directly going to affect the SQ or output of a sub, there's only so much you can get out of a given sub before you have to upgrade one or all of those features.

If you nerf the surround on the XXX by 50%, you're going to tear it before reaching XMAX.

If you clip the hell out of a Type R, the 2" VC will die out quickly (as was demonstrated in a recent review.) where a 2.5" would help with this (150% larger VC = higher heat handling).

Physical Magnet size could mean less to me. My 187s and LIs have proven that to me..

 

[Spkrman]

going from 2" to 2.5" is only 25% bigger, not 150%.... 150% would be 8" - lol.

 

[Spkrman]

If you are bottoming either of them out, then you are well beyond Xmax anyways....
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

oh the joy of exploring the limits of a woof!

 

[Spkrman]

I thought I stated that //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif
But it was in response to your sarcastic "seems funny how our fav subs have large magnets/voice coils..oh ya ,I forgot.Its all wow factor,no actual purpose.c'mon guys" comment.......when in reality, much of it is just for wow factor.

yep...

we are all guilty of it!

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Just to clarify, Dan Wiggins comments regarding making the Brahma's motor smaller were in reference to making a neo motor. He didn't suggest he made the current ferrite motor larger than necessary for a wow factor. He said it was one of his reasons for not chosing a neo motor design.

 

[Raven 10+ year member]

going from 2" to 2.5" is only 25% bigger, not 150%.... 150% would be 8" - lol.

Since the voice coil is A) not solid, and B) wrapped around the former, it's physical size is perimeter times height. Since pi(1)^2 = 3.14, and pi(1.25)^2 =4.9, the perimeter of the voice coil is 150% larger. If the VC is 2 inches high, the area of a 2" vc is 6.28"^2, a 2.5" vc is 9.8"^2, assuming my math is right.

An 8" VC 2" long would be over 100"^2 in area, or 10x a 2.5" vc. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

 

[Spkrman]

Since the voice coil is A) not solid, and B) wrapped around the former, it's physical size is perimeter times height. Since pi(1)^2 = 3.14, and pi(1.25)^2 =4.9, the perimeter of the voice coil is 150% larger. If the VC is 2 inches high, the area of a 2" vc is 6.28"^2, a 2.5" vc is 9.8"^2, assuming my math is right.
An 8" VC 2" long would be over 100"^2 in area, or 10x a 2.5" vc. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

if you want to be all complicated - sure //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Just to clarify, Dan Wiggins comments regarding making the Brahma's motor smaller were in reference to making a neo motor. He didn't suggest he made the current ferrite motor larger than necessary for a wow factor. He said it was one of his reasons for not chosing a neo motor design.

How isn't as important as why in this conversation //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif They went with what they did for the "wow" factor, which low-n-loud tried to claim didn't exist or didn't partially dictate certain aspects driver design.

And...while we're talking about the Brahma, it also helps to point out that Adire recently "decreased" the coil size to 2.5" on the new version, down from 3" on the previous version. While they aren't in consumers hands yet, Dan & Co. has stated that it performs virtually identically to the pervious Brahma. Showing that a larger coil isn't inherently better, or won't adversely affect performance if designed properly //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Spkrman]

And...while we're talking about the Brahma, it also helps to point out that Adire recently "decreased" the coil size to 2.5" on the new version, down from 3" on the previous version. While they aren't in consumers hands yet, Dan & Co. has stated that it performs virtually identically to the pervious Brahma. Showing that a larger coil isn't inherently better, or won't adversely affect performance if designed properly //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

and vica-versa... hence

TYPE R POWA

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[bigbangtheory 5,000+ posts]

Since the voice coil is A) not solid, and B) wrapped around the former, it's physical size is perimeter times height. Since pi(1)^2 = 3.14, and pi(1.25)^2 =4.9, the perimeter of the voice coil is 150% larger. If the VC is 2 inches high, the area of a 2" vc is 6.28"^2, a 2.5" vc is 9.8"^2, assuming my math is right.
An 8" VC 2" long would be over 100"^2 in area, or 10x a 2.5" vc. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

Wow I knew I should have paid more attention in math class. WTF was that?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Jmac 4 teh w1n!!

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

dunno if it had been mentioned already, but what about neodynamium (spelling?) magnets? that shoots loud and low's theory to shit.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

dunno if it had been mentioned already, but what about neodynamium (spelling?) magnets? that shoots loud and low's theory to shit.

http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1178598&postcount=4

http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1178947&postcount=38

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

How isn't as important as why in this conversation //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif They went with what they did for the "wow" factor, which low-n-loud tried to claim didn't exist or didn't partially dictate certain aspects driver design.
And...while we're talking about the Brahma, it also helps to point out that Adire recently "decreased" the coil size to 2.5" on the new version, down from 3" on the previous version. While they aren't in consumers hands yet, Dan & Co. has stated that it performs virtually identically to the pervious Brahma. Showing that a larger coil isn't inherently better, or won't adversely affect performance if designed properly //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I stated why it was important. Your comment was too general so as to be assumed you meant the ferrite motor is in fact bigger than necessary for the performance it had, which is/was not the case. I realize he went with the ferrite motor over the neo for the wow factor, as I in fact mentioned that in my post. My point was so people didn't start some new rumor that the Brahma is 'over-motored' or some other non-sense. I simply felt your comment needed the further explanation that the 'smaller' motor was a different type altogether, not just smaller magnets/coil/etc. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Ive read the new specs on Adire's new line, and Ive read Dan's comments. But I wont debate them, their meaning or their true performance 'changes' until we have something to listen to and play with. I have no doubt what Dan says about the performance (same with smaller stuff) is possible, but I wont assume it and base my views off of it. I'll just wait and see.

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Simply put, a speaker's motor is an assembly of many parts, all of which affect its performance. A large magnet structure in and of itself gives very little insight into the over all performance of the driver, just like looking at any other single aspect of the motor assembly would. Everything else is just generalizations.