The big 3 just don't get it, nobody wants American cars.

[sexiewasd 10+ year member]

I see all these debates over the auto industry like this, and I kinda do help the big 3 go under. That way when all the manufacturing plants get shut down and even kids at mcdonald's are getting laid off cause no one can afford the freaking dollar menu. The debate isn't even about whether the cars are crap or not, they can fix that and make better cars. It's about the whole countries economy.
Those 400,000 or so employees for the big 3 get laid off, then the million or so working for companies that contract with the big 3 go under. Before you know it every1 is in the sh!thole. Might as well start buying mitsubishi & honda stock now, cause the asians will run the world.

I don't mind paying more for a good product, especially if it's made here but I am not going to pay more for worse product that's made in Mexico and assembled here just because they can't sell enough to stay afloat. When the big company's go under smaller ones will pop-up, or well, hell we can curl up in a ball and submit to our Asian successors, who seam to be doing this whole capitalism thing better than us atm. The irony, we push capitalism so hard for so many years, then we whine when someone listens.

IMO It's not that hard to design a good car that is cheap, well made, and quick to assemble. Toyota and Honda have been doing it for years now and the big three are just now noticing after someone made them put down the bubbly and look at the red numbers?

One last thing before I get too into a US vs Asian debate (these never turn out well) Why all the comparisons of interiors to judge the quality of a car? Have you never looked under the hood to see how these things work? The single least important piece of a cars design is it's interior. A car is a metal box surrounded by a decently complicated piece of heavy machinery, many independent systems interfaced together all working together to move you and your stuff, any one of which could fail leaving your car as a big expensive piece of metal that keeps your parking space from sneaking away while you sleep. The interiors only purpose is to make you feel safe and cozy while operating a 3/4 ton machine at 70mph.

 

[GreenBook 10+ year member]

If GM goes out that is 1 million jobs effected, not to mention about 400k retirees. When GM went on strike, the economic growth went down a whole percent. This doesn't effect just Detroit, but all of America.

Yeah I know that, but I live in michigan, as do u. The rest of the country is blind and thinks they are somehow immune to a collapse.

 

[DaGh0st 5,000+ posts]

Yeah I know that, but I live in michigan, as do u. The rest of the country is blind and thinks they are somehow immune to a collapse.

Indeed. If something doesnt happen shits gonna get ugly.

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

Yeah I know that, but I live in michigan, as do u. The rest of the country is blind and thinks they are somehow immune to a collapse.

No, the rest of the country is just more realistic. We know that $25 billion is not going to change anything in the long run. The automakers and the union have to do more than say, "gimme."

 

[2002XLT 5,000+ posts]

Yeah I know that, but I live in michigan, as do u. The rest of the country is blind and thinks they are somehow immune to a collapse.

If you truly believe that then you are an idiot. The whole country is fcked, not just Detroit or Michigan. 250,000 jobs were lost in just oct. in America. You dont have to live in michigan to realize it, believe me. The local hospital just cut its staff in half, thats 4,000 jobs of whihc just about everyone in the community worked. Its washington you should worry about, they are the ones just waiting for us taxpayers to bail them out so they can go on their 100,000 dollar a night stay at the resorts.

And as far as the asians taking over, have you seen the world-wide economy?

 

[2002XLT 5,000+ posts]

No, the rest of the country is just more realistic. We know that $25 billion is not going to change anything in the long run. The automakers and the union have to do more than say, "gimme."

precisely. give them 25 billiion so that in 5 years we are in the same spot? Fck them. The names of the American auto industry will still be there, just under a different corp.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

No, the rest of the country is just more realistic. We know that $25 billion is not going to change anything in the long run. The automakers and the union have to do more than say, "gimme."

The union has. They agreed to take over all the health care in exchange for a lump sum and the big 3 says they don't have it. GM has cut their workforce in half in the past 10 years. They have cut new hires wages and benefits in half. They have closed plants. They have, especially Ford, has made concentrated efforts to improve quality and build hybrids.

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

The union has. They agreed to take over all the health care in exchange for a lump sum and the big 3 says they don't have it. GM has cut their workforce in half in the past 10 years. They have cut new hires wages and benefits in half. They have closed plants. They have, especially Ford, has made concentrated efforts to improve quality and build hybrids.

I hate to say it, but they are probably going to have to do soemthing with the pensions as well.

Furthermore, the unions just have to become more reasonable in their contract demands. I spoke with a guy who used to have an independent equipment maintenance company in Michigan. Each year his company would perform maintenance on some of the machinery for one of the auto companies over the 4th of July weekend.

According to this guy, the union contract required the company to have 3 union employees on the clock for every employee who there working for an independent contractor. In addition, the union employees were each paid 3x their normal rate because it was a holiday. None of them, however, were actually needed for the work. So, they just played cards, riding the clock, while the independents were doing the work.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

I hate to say it, but they are probably going to have to do soemthing with the pensions as well.
Furthermore, the unions just have to become more reasonable in their contract demands. I spoke with a guy who used to have an independent equipment maintenance company in Michigan. Each year his company would perform maintenance on some of the machinery for one of the auto companies over the 4th of July weekend.

According to this guy, the union contract required the company to have 3 union employees on the clock for every employee who there working for an independent contractor. In addition, the union employees were each paid 3x their normal rate because it was a holiday. None of them, however, were actually needed for the work. So, they just played cards, riding the clock, while the independents were doing the work.

You ****ing troll I hope some gook in an Asian car runs you down.

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

Oh, and your friend lied to you and is a douchebag. The pensions were also supposed to be vested and the big 3 was suppose to have made contributions the past 30 years in a trust.

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

lawl

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

Oh, and your friend lied to you and is a douchebag. The pensions were also supposed to be vested and the big 3 was suppose to have made contributions the past 30 years in a trust.

It looks like they can't afford to pay it now. Do you think some poor worker 2,000 miles from Detroit should subsidize the union ***'s retirement?

 

[Lugnutz 10+ year member]

It looks like they can't afford to pay it now. Do you think some poor worker 2,000 miles from Detroit should subsidize the union ***'s retirement?

This doesn't effect just Detroit //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif Most big 3 retirees don't even live in Michigan

 

[speedfreak28 10+ year member]

escalade

range

you compared a 08 range rover to an 04 escalade interior

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

This doesn't effect just Detroit //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif Most big 3 retirees don't even live in Michigan

Oh. Well, let's subsidize their retirement then.