sx vs hdc3... which his lower/has better sound quality

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

OP what is your front stage going to be and what type of music do you mostly listen to? I see a lot of guys concerned with the SQ of a sub and they only listen to new rap which has no SQ to speak of.

I keep my HDC's dailed back most of the time and they blend well and sound accurate on everything from an upright bass to fast double kicks.

 

[SHOemup233 10+ year member]

What did I miss? Is it just me or when the HDC came out, everyone was running around talking about how it was a strict SPL sub, and no longer the more SQLish sub the HD3 was?
Now it seems every other thread involving HDC's people are talking about how good they sound and comparing them to supposedly more SQ oriented subs. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

Exactly. Everyone knows that the in the right enclosure, any sub can sound good. Hell, I've seen L7's used in SQ competition. This does NOT make them SQ subs though. That is my point. :

I've never said I don't like music reproduced accurately. The actual statement is that I don't understand SQ purists who consider "playing it as the artist intended" to be the holy grail of SQ.
So what exactly is the definition of SQ as I've asked several times on here and never get an answer other then "it's subjective"?

Why do you assume that my set up sounds "bass filled", especially considering you've never heard it? I've spent a lot of time installing/tuning my front stage and getting the subs to blend well. Yes I have the potential to have a LOT of bass when I want it, but that's not how I normally listen.

I will say it time and again that the HDC's in the right enclosure mated to the right front stage can sound VERY good. Probably not enough for the purists, but for 99% of the people out there they will very accurately reproduce the lower octaves.

As for playing loud down low you don't have to tune them to 38 if your main choice of music has a lot of material in the 20's. I hit 147@31Hz tuned to 38Hz, so I'm betting mine are still pretty loud at 27Hz, at least louder then most SQ types would need.

Dam n mlstrass. I wasn't expecting you to jump on the offensive. I am a big fan of your setup, and your boxes. I just don't agree that the HDC's are SQ subs. In the right setup they can sound good, sure, that doesn't make them SQ subs.

If it isn't played "as the artist intended", is isn't being played accurately. I assume you realize that. Most people wouldn't want to have a real SQ car, because it would not fit their specific tastes.

I assumed based on the fact that you have 2 15" SPL based subs. I assumed that if you didn't like to have more "bass filled" music, you wouldn't have spent that much money on your setup. It could be wrong, but it isn't a bad assumption by any means...Although assumptions are always bad. Sorry.

Again, you missed my point with hitting low entirely. I understand your subs are loud down low. But what did they hit at higher frequencies? What was your peak? I would guess in the 149-151 range maybe? So since a 3db decrease would sound half as loud, in theory, at 31 hz it may sound half as loud as the upper frequencies. Correct me if I'm wrong on that guess and you peaked at 148, if so, you proved me wrong.

If anyone has a choice of music in the 20's...although I can't fathom how, the HDC's should NOT be their choice. The HDC's were not meant to play that low, 20-25 hz.

OP what is your front stage going to be and what type of music do you mostly listen to? I see a lot of guys concerned with the SQ of a sub and they only listen to new rap which has no SQ to speak of.
I keep my HDC's dailed back most of the time and they blend well and sound accurate on everything from an upright bass to fast double kicks.

The big problem on these forums is a bunch of noobs coming in here and saying they want "SQL" subs when they listen to mostly rap. They don't want sound quality at all, they just want their subs to be loud. They want their subs to "sound good." By sound good, they mean "my one friend has some audiobahns and they BANG, and they don't sound bad at all." They are comparing their subs to crap. So when we recommend them the icon, Q, mag, because they are all known to be the best "SQL" subs hands down, they are disappointed because they aren't loud enough. They then pick up the HDC, BTL, etc. and are very pleased and then praise the SQ because their goal wasn't SQ in the first place.

 

[mazda6i07 10+ year member]

Audioque Hdc3 FTW!!

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

OP what is your front stage going to be and what type of music do you mostly listen to? I see a lot of guys concerned with the SQ of a sub and they only listen to new rap which has no SQ to speak of.
I keep my HDC's dailed back most of the time and they blend well and sound accurate on everything from an upright bass to fast double kicks.

i listen to everything, which is why i need something well rounded, i listen to chicago, the eagles, slipknot, manson, but i also listen to brad paisley and young joc, i need well rounded.

what i WANT to do for my front stage is 3 way active but being i've never gone active im going to start with a 2 way active setup, id oem 6.5's in the doors and seas neo alum tweets in the sails, 4x100w amp (undecided on amp) and a clarion 785 headunit to run everything.

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

Exactly. Everyone knows that the in the right enclosure, any sub can sound good. Hell, I've seen L7's used in SQ competition. This does NOT make them SQ subs though. That is my point. :


Dam n mlstrass. I wasn't expecting you to jump on the offensive. I am a big fan of your setup, and your boxes. I just don't agree that the HDC's are SQ subs. In the right setup they can sound good, sure, that doesn't make them SQ subs.

If it isn't played "as the artist intended", is isn't being played accurately. I assume you realize that. Most people wouldn't want to have a real SQ car, because it would not fit their specific tastes.

I assumed based on the fact that you have 2 15" SPL based subs. I assumed that if you didn't like to have more "bass filled" music, you wouldn't have spent that much money on your setup. It could be wrong, but it isn't a bad assumption by any means...Although assumptions are always bad. Sorry.

Again, you missed my point with hitting low entirely. I understand your subs are loud down low. But what did they hit at higher frequencies? What was your peak? I would guess in the 149-151 range maybe? So since a 3db decrease would sound half as loud, in theory, at 31 hz it may sound half as loud as the upper frequencies. Correct me if I'm wrong on that guess and you peaked at 148, if so, you proved me wrong.

If anyone has a choice of music in the 20's...although I can't fathom how, the HDC's should NOT be their choice. The HDC's were not meant to play that low, 20-25 hz.

The big problem on these forums is a bunch of noobs coming in here and saying they want "SQL" subs when they listen to mostly rap. They don't want sound quality at all, they just want their subs to be loud. They want their subs to "sound good." By sound good, they mean "my one friend has some audiobahns and they BANG, and they don't sound bad at all." They are comparing their subs to crap. So when we recommend them the icon, Q, mag, because they are all known to be the best "SQL" subs hands down, they are disappointed because they aren't loud enough. They then pick up the HDC, BTL, etc. and are very pleased and then praise the SQ because their goal wasn't SQ in the first place.

i understand what you mean, i don't listen to primarily rap, i probably listen to rap 25-35% of the time, and a mix of rock, country and old studd the rest of the time, like i said i need a well rounded sub. im only getting a single 12, im not after ear bleeding SPL, i've got room for 2 15's if needed but i don't think it is in my case (standard cab truck with 2 15's on 1500w would probably be painful for the average enthusiast) i just want a sub that will get loud when needed on certain songs, get low when needed on certain songs, and play accurately (as opposed to muddy) when needed on ertain songs.

 

[alex5857 10+ year member]

HDC's are NOT sQL subs, they are SPL subs, how are you gonna tell me a subwoofer in the 40hz fs freq are sq subs?

with that power i would go with two RL-P's i love mine, it sounds great and it get LOW..

if i recall correctly there is someone in the classifieds selling two for cheap

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

HDC's are NOT sQL subs, they are SPL subs, how are you gonna tell me a subwoofer in the 40hz fs freq are sq subs?
with that power i would go with two RL-P's i love mine, it sounds great and it get LOW..

if i recall correctly there is someone in the classifieds selling two for cheap

I ran RL-P's before the HDC's and they're now in the HT. Solid subs, but the sound was a little "dry" IMO. Just not enough impact on kick drums and I listen to a lot of metal.

Do you have experience with HDC's or solely basing things of the fs freq? I've done a direct comparison and the HDC's sound every bit as good and get MUCH louder...

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

i understand what you mean, i don't listen to primarily rap, i probably listen to rap 25-35% of the time, and a mix of rock, country and old studd the rest of the time, like i said i need a well rounded sub. im only getting a single 12, im not after ear bleeding SPL, i've got room for 2 15's if needed but i don't think it is in my case (standard cab truck with 2 15's on 1500w would probably be painful for the average enthusiast) i just want a sub that will get loud when needed on certain songs, get low when needed on certain songs, and play accurately (as opposed to muddy) when needed on ertain songs.

The HDC can do all that you want, so can the Q, just that the HDC can get louder. I run a Q in the GF's car, so I have some experience with that sub also //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

Exactly. Everyone knows that the in the right enclosure, any sub can sound good. Hell, I've seen L7's used in SQ competition. This does NOT make them SQ subs though. That is my point. :


Dam n mlstrass. I wasn't expecting you to jump on the offensive. I am a big fan of your setup, and your boxes. I just don't agree that the HDC's are SQ subs. In the right setup they can sound good, sure, that doesn't make them SQ subs.

If it isn't played "as the artist intended", is isn't being played accurately. I assume you realize that. Most people wouldn't want to have a real SQ car, because it would not fit their specific tastes.

I assumed based on the fact that you have 2 15" SPL based subs. I assumed that if you didn't like to have more "bass filled" music, you wouldn't have spent that much money on your setup. It could be wrong, but it isn't a bad assumption by any means...Although assumptions are always bad. Sorry.

Again, you missed my point with hitting low entirely. I understand your subs are loud down low. But what did they hit at higher frequencies? What was your peak? I would guess in the 149-151 range maybe? So since a 3db decrease would sound half as loud, in theory, at 31 hz it may sound half as loud as the upper frequencies. Correct me if I'm wrong on that guess and you peaked at 148, if so, you proved me wrong.

If anyone has a choice of music in the 20's...although I can't fathom how, the HDC's should NOT be their choice. The HDC's were not meant to play that low, 20-25 hz.

The big problem on these forums is a bunch of noobs coming in here and saying they want "SQL" subs when they listen to mostly rap. They don't want sound quality at all, they just want their subs to be loud. They want their subs to "sound good." By sound good, they mean "my one friend has some audiobahns and they BANG, and they don't sound bad at all." They are comparing their subs to crap. So when we recommend them the icon, Q, mag, because they are all known to be the best "SQL" subs hands down, they are disappointed because they aren't loud enough. They then pick up the HDC, BTL, etc. and are very pleased and then praise the SQ because their goal wasn't SQ in the first place.

SHO,

My bad for coming off defensive as that wasn't my intention. Sometimes wording things can be tricky on a forum, but I was sincerely asking your opinion on things as I never pass up a chance to hear other's ideas/experiences. Chance to learn something new //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I base accuracy on what my ears think an instrument sounds like which is probably very close to how a musician records it. Just that I don't bother using an RTA and setting things flat to get measureable results since I don't compete. Just need to make my ears happy //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

With that said I consider the HDC a daily driver SQ sub as it can play all instruments in the lower octaves very accurately. It's not muddy, bloated, over powering, boomy or any of the other terms used to describe bad sounding bass. Trust me I've heard PLENTY of set ups that are and mine is nothing like that.

I run 2 15's with a lot of power as sometimes I like to just crank up some metal and it takes a LOT of sub to get the kicks to pound you in the chest. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

In the box tuned to 35Hz the peak was 147@ 31Hz, tuned to 38Hz it peaked at 149 @ 34Hz. Doing a sweep it was within around 1dB from 30-40Hz. Didn't test it any higher.

I can't tell you how they do down in the 20's as nothing I listen to plays that low, so you could be totally correct on that one. I save the LFE stuff for the HT //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I agree on noobies listening to rap having no idea what SQ is as they just want some boom in the trunk. I listen to everything but rap, so I have a lot of experience with the HDC's playing classic rock, jazz, blues, R&B, metal, hell even classical.

DJ will tell you he designed the sub to sound good and then tries to over build it so kids won't blow them up feeding them 3x RMS. I think he did a **** good job and they just happen to take a lot of power and get very loud which is a bonus...

I've never heard a Mag (still waiting for someone close by to buy one so I can get a demo), but I've done plenty of Q set ups and heard one Icon install. None have impressed me like the HDC's do.

I plan to hit up some local SQ meets next Spring just to hear some true SQ cars and see if my ears are just made of stone //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[SHOemup233 10+ year member]

SHO,
My bad for coming off defensive as that wasn't my intention. Sometimes wording things can be tricky on a forum, but I was sincerely asking your opinion on things as I never pass up a chance to hear other's ideas/experiences. Chance to learn something new //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I base accuracy on what my ears think an instrument sounds like which is probably very close to how a musician records it. Just that I don't bother using an RTA and setting things flat to get measureable results since I don't compete. Just need to make my ears happy //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

With that said I consider the HDC a daily driver SQ sub as it can play all instruments in the lower octaves very accurately. It's not muddy, bloated, over powering, boomy or any of the other terms used to describe bad sounding bass. Trust me I've heard PLENTY of set ups that are and mine is nothing like that.

I run 2 15's with a lot of power as sometimes I like to just crank up some metal and it takes a LOT of sub to get the kicks to pound you in the chest. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

In the box tuned to 35Hz the peak was 147@ 31Hz, tuned to 38Hz it peaked at 149 @ 34Hz. Doing a sweep it was within around 1dB from 30-40Hz. Didn't test it any higher.

I can't tell you how they do down in the 20's as nothing I listen to plays that low, so you could be totally correct on that one. I save the LFE stuff for the HT //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I agree on noobies listening to rap having no idea what SQ is as they just want some boom in the trunk. I listen to everything but rap, so I have a lot of experience with the HDC's playing classic rock, jazz, blues, R&B, metal, hell even classical.

DJ will tell you he designed the sub to sound good and then tries to over build it so kids won't blow them up feeding them 3x RMS. I think he did a **** good job and they just happen to take a lot of power and get very loud which is a bonus...

I've never heard a Mag (still waiting for someone close by to buy one so I can get a demo), but I've done plenty of Q set ups and heard one Icon install. None have impressed me like the HDC's do.

I plan to hit up some local SQ meets next Spring just to hear some true SQ cars and see if my ears are just made of stone //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Haha. We are on pretty much on exactly the same page...cept I don't have my 2x15 HDC's yet and active front stage.

Dam n, you peaked at 31 hz. You got me. The reason why I was saying that was I remember a thread recently where some guy was not pleased at all with the low end output of his HDC, sub 32, and everyone told him "well that is expected with the box." Which, well, it is. Except in your case!

I can't really say anything else. I listen to everything, and a lot of metal...August Burns Red, Parkway drive etc. and I loved turning it up and feeling the drums. I'm getting 2 15 hdc's for the same reason. I loved my mag, don't get me wrong, but I am pretty sure I will like the sound of the HDC better. I learned through my mag that I needed a little more SPL oriented sub.

 

[SHOemup233 10+ year member]

i understand what you mean, i don't listen to primarily rap, i probably listen to rap 25-35% of the time, and a mix of rock, country and old studd the rest of the time, like i said i need a well rounded sub. im only getting a single 12, im not after ear bleeding SPL, i've got room for 2 15's if needed but i don't think it is in my case (standard cab truck with 2 15's on 1500w would probably be painful for the average enthusiast) i just want a sub that will get loud when needed on certain songs, get low when needed on certain songs, and play accurately (as opposed to muddy) when needed on ertain songs.

What amp did you say you were running?

If your going to have >=1500 watts on tap, I would say the HDC312 in 2.5@38 hz is best for you. My friend has one in his Cavalier and it gets real loud for only one 12. Make sure you have a really well built box though, Fisher Customs, or just good with wood...which it isn't to hard to build a box.

 

[DDbump 10+ year member]

go with the hdc man u wont be dissapointed. great sq even in a wall!! lol

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

i already payed for the hdc, should be here wed

as far as amp goes, either a hifonics bxi1608 or an audiopipe ap15001, the audiopipes are cea rated at 1500@1ohm, and my previous hifonics amps have never let me down, so its a toss up.

recommended box for these is 2.5? or 2? planning on tuning to 38hz

and yeah i just happen to have the next 3 days off so im going to start building a new box, double baffle with 1" dowels front to back, side to side, and top to bottom for support, it should be built like a tank when its done, 2 4" aero ports, sub will be firing forward on passanger side, port firing sideways on drivers side

 

[JamesKarr 10+ year member]

go****it everytime I see these kinda thread it makes me wunna sell my brand new SX for a Hdc3.

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

well i've heard a sx 12 off 1200 watts, but i've never heard the hdc3 so this buy was on a hunch, so ill let ya know how i feel about the difference