Subwoofer not playing right

[gknudsen22]

Are the subs wired out of phase? That cIt’s not semantics; it’s how sound works. I didn’t make sound work that way. A larger volume of air will have a lower resonance than a smaller volume of air no matter what, because it’s the properties of the air, not the properties of the woofer(s).

I don’t know enough about the box or woofers quite to come to a conclusion yet, need more info. I said the difference would be minimal, so I’m not saying or implying anything other than that, that’s why I said it was a technicality,

What size is the box? Sounds like it could possibly be too small of a box, where increased voltage in the coil isn’t able to actually move the cone more, so you get an air-restriction-distortion and not much sound past a certain amount of energy in the coil, restricted xmax. Just a thought.

And ported boxes are generally much louder than sealed, like you tune it to sound like you want.

Make sure your sealed box isn’t leaking, like some of the panels may have become not adhered together.

So just to be clear I am fairly new to car audio. I’m unclear on how ohms work and all this stuff. Just a dude that’s handy enough to install the parts.

I bought the speakers and box together used. It was a box specifically designed for my truck (ram 2500) to go under the seat. There are many boxes online very similar so it’s not a random or custom made box. I do not know the brand unfortunately.

Attached is a link for the speakers and a picture of the box and how I have the subs wired to the amp.

Subwoofer link: https://www.jlaudio.com/products/12w1v3-4-car-audio-w1v3-subwoofers-92083

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

You need at least 2 cubic feet (2.2 for 2 of these twelves according to JL) and I'm guessing based on a 5-inch depth that you have about 1.5, if that. Do you have a link to the manufacturer or can you find out what the internal displacement is? Any documentation? a box that is 30-50 percent too small would definitely lead to issues, especially as the volume increases.

 

[gknudsen22]

So there is no markings at all on the box and inside the box there is nothing other than cotton/insulation.

I did some research online and there are many versions of the ram 2500 under seat sub box. They are all around 1.00 cubic feet. Not much more. Skar actually makes a box just like mine that comes with 2 of their shallow depth 12’s in it. Can’t imagine they would push a product that would sound anywhere near the way mine does? I do get what you are saying but I’m confused why these manufactures would make a box that just doesn’t work with the speakers it’s made for. My subs are shallow depth so they’re supposed to be in a box like this.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

So just to be clear I am fairly new to car audio. I’m unclear on how ohms work and all this stuff. Just a dude that’s handy enough to install the parts.

I bought the speakers and box together used. It was a box specifically designed for my truck (ram 2500) to go under the seat. There are many boxes online very similar so it’s not a random or custom made box. I do not know the brand unfortunately.

Attached is a link for the speakers and a picture of the box and how I have the subs wired to the amp.

Subwoofer link: https://www.jlaudio.com/products/12w1v3-4-car-audio-w1v3-subwoofers-92083

Get a digital multimeter, if you want to work on your own stuff. It’s a must have.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

So there is no markings at all on the box and inside the box there is nothing other than cotton/insulation.

I did some research online and there are many versions of the ram 2500 under seat sub box. They are all around 1.00 cubic feet. Not much more. Skar actually makes a box just like mine that comes with 2 of their shallow depth 12’s in it. Can’t imagine they would push a product that would sound anywhere near the way mine does? I do get what you are saying but I’m confused why these manufactures would make a box that just doesn’t work with the speakers it’s made for. My subs are shallow depth so they’re supposed to be in a box like this.

I get it man. But I think your logic lacks foundation, that's what these forums are for - before you purchase.

First off, many subwoofer manufacturers make drivers that can work in either sealed or vented or both, a compromise. My Focal 33v2's say specifically, that these are for sealed enclosures. What decides all this is the elector-mechanical design of the driver itself. These determine certain characteristics, and specs that lean one way or the other with the outcome based on the enclosure expectation. IMHO, drivers that play both ways still actually favor one or the other or they are less effective at both. When you purchased the JL, you thought, hey, shallow sub, box for shallow subs, great! That's not how it works. JL designed, (as do all manufacturers) the sub to work in a shallow box - of 1.1 cubic feet per driver, not .5 as you may have in that box. Don't take this too personally, that's not on JL, it's on the buyer. They assume that you know the enclosure and the specifications of their woofer and what it needs to work correctly.

The Sakr drivers are most likely designed with that box in mind, then again, it's Skar, I would have to take a look. If it's utilizing woofers specifically designed for the box they put it in, then it would probably sound much better than what you have now, definitely.

All is not lost.

If we can get the actual dimensions, break it down into each side enclosing the woofer, so like ends are 14x14x6 for the sides and 1 14 x 30 x 2.5 or whatever that looks like or is for that middle the thickness of the wood, I can do the math if you're not familiar with it. Once we know the volume we are actually working with, we may be able to salvage the build after all.

A quick look at this shallow 10" JL sub would indicate that if just made new mounting plates on top, and put these in instead, they would probably put the 12s to shame!

JL Audio 10TW3-D4

Shallow-mount 10" subwoofer with dual 4-ohm voice coils

www.crutchfield.com

That's just an example though, lets get the math done first.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

So there is no markings at all on the box and inside the box there is nothing other than cotton/insulation.

I did some research online and there are many versions of the ram 2500 under seat sub box. They are all around 1.00 cubic feet. Not much more. Skar actually makes a box just like mine that comes with 2 of their shallow depth 12’s in it. Can’t imagine they would push a product that would sound anywhere near the way mine does? I do get what you are saying but I’m confused why these manufactures would make a box that just doesn’t work with the speakers it’s made for. My subs are shallow depth so they’re supposed to be in a box like this.

I just found this on Crutchfield, pretty sure this is the same as what you have.

SPL Boxes SB202-212-BL

Custom-fit dual 12" sealed subwoofer enclosure — fits 2002-up Dodge and Ram Quad Cab trucks

www.crutchfield.com

Let me do some looking and see what can be done. That box is much too small for those woofers.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

It's going to be next to impossible to find decent 12" subs that are going to work in a .5 to .65 cubic ft, sealed (both could be fine if the speaker is rated for close to that, a 10% variance is not critical) or the ones that will are going to cost more than the whole system!.

They are not JL's but in this box, they will most likely sound much better than what you have. These Pio's are a good fit at $129.99 each.

Pioneer TS-A3000LS4 1500 Watts 12" Single 4 Ohm Shallow Mount Truck Subwoofer 884938446679 | eBay

1500 Watts Max Peak Power, 12" Single 4 Ohm Truck Subwoofer. Pioneer Shallow Mount TS-A3000LS4. Impedance: Single 4 Ohm. 400 Watts Nominal Power. Glass Fiber and Mica Reinforced IMPP Cone. Double reinforced Spider.

www.ebay.com

Put 1lb of this in the box

Home

Acousta-Stuf Polyfill 1 lb. Bag Speaker Cabinet Sound Damping MaterialAcousta-Stuf, a synthetic material made from crimped fibers, is an excellent choice for filling or stuffing small enclosures or transmission line cabinets. Long fiber wool has been a favorite among serious speaker builders but...

www.parts-express.com

At $209.99 each,, these should work okay too.

Sundown Audio SML 12" 500W RMS Dual 2 Ohm Subwoofer SML-12-D2 | eBay

Sundown Audio SML 12" 500W RMS Dual 2 Ohm Subwoofer SML-12-D2.

www.ebay.com

I've actually used these and they do a very good job. They're an older model of the first ones I linked and I think they are very good. You might have to hone out the cutout as they are slightly oversized, but the bass is pretty damn good.

Pioneer TS-SW3002S4 12 inch 1500W Subwoofer - Black for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Pioneer TS-SW3002S4 12 inch 1500W Subwoofer - Black at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

So there is no markings at all on the box and inside the box there is nothing other than cotton/insulation.

I did some research online and there are many versions of the ram 2500 under seat sub box. They are all around 1.00 cubic feet. Not much more. Skar actually makes a box just like mine that comes with 2 of their shallow depth 12’s in it. Can’t imagine they would push a product that would sound anywhere near the way mine does? I do get what you are saying but I’m confused why these manufactures would make a box that just doesn’t work with the speakers it’s made for. My subs are shallow depth so they’re supposed to be in a box like this.

I wouldn't consider Skar (aka Skarbage) a trustworthy source. You have 12" subs jammed into a space that's more appropriate for 8s or 10s. Not only that, but I'd say JL was being a bit "optimistic" when they suggested 1.1 cuft for those subs. I had a buddy who ran one of the w1s in ~1.5cuft with excellent results. Most companies are anywhere from a little bit to outrageously optimistic about their enclosure recommendations.

That said, I don't think the mismatch between the sub and the enclosure is the source of your problem. I'd guess the gain is set too high on the subwoofer channel. Maybe a bad coil.

 

[Doxquzme Premium Member]

I wouldn't consider Skar (aka Skarbage) a trustworthy source. You have 12" subs jammed into a space that's more appropriate for 8s or 10s. Not only that, but I'd say JL was being a bit "optimistic" when they suggested 1.1 cuft for those subs. I had a buddy who ran one of the w1s in ~1.5cuft with excellent results. Most companies are anywhere from a little bit to outrageously optimistic about their enclosure recommendations.

That said, I don't think the mismatch between the sub and the enclosure is the source of your problem. I'd guess the gain is set too high on the subwoofer channel. Maybe a bad coil.

Well, there is that. That JL is only feeding them 150 a side, not a lot so one may reach saturation pretty quickly, especially if the gains are set too high. But a pair of Shallow 10s or a decent set of 8's with a pound of Acousta stuff in that enclosure of 1.3 cu ft would fare much better. You and I know that the perception is that bigger is better... right?

 

[1aespinoza 10+ year member]

If we can get the actual dimensions, break it down into each side enclosing the woofer, so like ends are 14x14x6 for the sides and 1 14 x 30

My nephew has that type of box in his Ram. The thing has so many facets that it took me about an hour to calculate the volume of each chamber. I partitioned each chamber to 0.5 cu.ft. to load some SA10s. The box is 1 cube per chamber on the nose.
The 12w1v3 OP has use 1.25 cubes sealed, so the box is too small, hence the loss at higher volumes.

I'd guess the gain is set too high on the subwoofer channel. Maybe a bad coil.

OP ran one of the W1s in a ported box in the current system with positive results.

but I’m confused why these manufactures would make a box that just doesn’t work with the speakers it’s made for

The box manufacturer only made the box to fit the vehicle. 1 sealed cube per sub is now becoming a common sub parameter for 12" subs, unfortunately your subs require more. Your options are to acquire subs that meet your box specs OR a box that meets your sub's specs. You can always sell either to fund the new gear.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

I vote to take your backseat out and build a proper sub box back there. If your back seat is a 60/40, you can take the 40 out and build a bigger taller box in place of the seat. If you’re new to audio, working with an underseat box is the most difficult. I find designing underseat boxes at least as challenging as walls. Realistically, you’re only going to be able to fit a limited amount of options under that seat. I’ve designed a ton of boxes; I’m good with funky geometry, and because of that, I did a ton of underseat boxes. I’m telling you your options are always going to be very limited, so maybe think about that. You have to obey your airspace restrictions and find a sub and box setup that maximizes your space, when it comes to combining the right sub(s) and power levels.

For a beginner, you’re literally doing the hardest type of box, IMO, outside of a full wall build. Pickup trucks can suffer from bad cancellation due to the location and width of the box in the cab, and especially because pickup trucks’ cabins tend to be wider than they are deep, or the width and depth of the cab is near squared. I’ve seen big systems in trucks sound like crap, like 2 18’s, because the box design and placement in the cab was causing the whole sub system to cancel itself out, with how the wave phases were destructive and didn’t add together properly. It’s complicated for a beginner.

I’ve done underseat boxes with: sealed, ported, 4th order bandpass, and series 6th order bandpass, and I’m telling you, they’re just difficult to maximize space, power, and overall performance. My first vehicle was an ext cab f150, and I removed the whole rear seat and put all sorts of different systems back there, because I had plenty of space, and that allowed me to figure out sound more, experiment, really allowed me to have fun, because I had plenty of room for whatever. Just a long thought for you from a long time box designer

You can look through my IG, there’s some truck pics there and you can see if you get any new ideas from them:

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

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Here’s a series 6th order for a DC 12 in the 40 split, for example:

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

And FYI- JL makes very good subs. They are “softer” SQ subs, but they do a lot with the power fed and are highly engineered. Skar is more like a copy of a better company. Skar makes relatively good woofers for the price, but they are not an audiophile type company. JL Audio woofers are some of the best overall woofers you can have, as far as quality goes, but they don’t like to be abused, so that’s why I run more SPL-like, big beefcake woofers is to really be able to throw big power at them and not worry about a little clipping causing too much coil heat, etc.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

My nephew has that type of box in his Ram. The thing has so many facets that it took me about an hour to calculate the volume of each chamber. I partitioned each chamber to 0.5 cu.ft. to load some SA10s. The box is 1 cube per chamber on the nose.
The 12w1v3 OP has use 1.25 cubes sealed, so the box is too small, hence the loss at higher volumes.

OP ran one of the W1s in a ported box in the current system with positive results.

The box manufacturer only made the box to fit the vehicle. 1 sealed cube per sub is now becoming a common sub parameter for 12" subs, unfortunately your subs require more. Your options are to acquire subs that meet your box specs OR a box that meets your sub's specs. You can always sell either to fund the new gear.

You can draw the inside of a box in sketchup, and sketchup can tell you the volume of the shape. I never knew that until I did a wall where every side of the shell was angled and so was the giant sub baffle, so I had to use that feature to figure out the volume of the weird top shape of it, as I run my own written excel sheets for all structural information on the box. It’s kinda hidden/hard to find, but it’s there to use in sketchup, calculate or show volume. You can also show surface area on sketchup; I recommend using Sketchup 8. All of my designs were done in sketchup 8.

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

My nephew has that type of box in his Ram. The thing has so many facets that it took me about an hour to calculate the volume of each chamber. I partitioned each chamber to 0.5 cu.ft. to load some SA10s. The box is 1 cube per chamber on the nose.
The 12w1v3 OP has use 1.25 cubes sealed, so the box is too small, hence the loss at higher volumes.

OP ran one of the W1s in a ported box in the current system with positive results.

The box manufacturer only made the box to fit the vehicle. 1 sealed cube per sub is now becoming a common sub parameter for 12" subs, unfortunately your subs require more. Your options are to acquire subs that meet your box specs OR a box that meets your sub's specs. You can always sell either to fund the new gear.

All the Ram crewcab enclosures I looked up are ~.5 cuft per side. Looks to me like there is barely enough room for the basket and motor. That enclosure just screams 10" subs to me.

Dodge Ram Quad Cab 02-16 Dual Subwoofer Box

A Subwoofer Box for your 02-15 Dodge Ram Quad Cab will make a dynamic change to your sound system. The Ram quad cab subwoofer enclosure is one of a kind.

www.supercrewsound.com

 

[gknudsen22]

Thank you for all the feedback. Although I would love to someday build a custom system, for this truck I think I want to keep it simple, “plug and play” if you will. Do you think getting the same style box but with 8 inch cutouts and 8 inch subs would hold up better? I am only looking for heavy punch and relatively clean sound if that’s possible. I know it’s hard with the limited space I have and not wanting to remove seats to do a custom box.

If you have any other semi easy ideas I’m all ears. And I’m willing to sell my equipment if I have to. I also just remembered that I do have a single 12 shallow mount sub box for a truck that’s sealed. It’s probably got more space, I’ll take a look when i get home from work. Totally forgot about it.