Sound Quality of Speaker Wire !?!?!??!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

[elementxero 10+ year member]

I don't have an opinion either way. If it makes a difference, my noob ears couldn't hear it so it matters not to me.

My observation with this thread is that there is WAY too much similarity to religious debate and we are talking about THE IMPACT OF METAL IN CARRYING ELECTRICITY TO MAKE VIBRATIONS.

Some of you sound like ranting prophets desperate to awaken the doomed and ignorant so they can cast their blasphemous eyes on the glory of your WIRE.

Debate is cool, its a valid conversation with two arguable sides, but ****, WHERE does the emotional investment come into play!?

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

Yes ... Yes ... You are a God !!!! I'm going to believ YOU instead of a fabulous engineer with millions of dollars worth of research to back him up ! You guys are missing out due to your ignorance standing in the way.

and millions of dollars riding on the fact that these wires make a difference as well... junk science is junk science... it's all over the place... but I haven't read the stuff and wouldn't understand it anyways but just because mister PhD engineer says it's true doesn't mean it is...

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

You know it's funny...he jumps to the conclusion that all of us poor cretins are beneath him and his almighty ears. We just don't know any better because we aren't elite enough to know the true difference that $3k in wire can make to a system. After all the guy with a degree in psychoacoustics knows that your ears are a perfect measuring tool and that differences that cannot be measured with any but the most sensitive and expensive of test equipment are "easily distinguished" by the ear. Richard Clark has $10K for you. Go collect it. Do it once for the amps. Oh, then you can do it again for the interconnects. And, hell, why not once again for the speaker wire. If the differences are so obvious to you, why don't you go make some easy money?

You made your living convincing a bunch of snobs that they "must have" the latest and greatest wire. And that they "must have" all manner of gimmicks. You then hide behind your degree as proof that you know what you are talking about. I've met all manner of people with all manner of degrees that I wouldn't trust with anything that they supposedly have an education in. The "research" that you quote is about as credible as tobacco company research that shows that there are no harmful effects from smoking. A wire making company publishes their own data that "clearly shows" that their wire is superior to everything else on the market and we're supposed to blindly listen to what they have to say. They're engineers, right? They should know their material, right? They speak from a position of superior knowlege, right? They aren't trying to make money and are therefore totally frank and unbiased and don't bury the real issue in a load of irrelevant horseshit, ri...oooh, not so right.

Ok, whatever. Whatever you gotta tell yourself to be able to sleep at night knowing that you have made a living as a snake-oil salesman.

Let's delve into the economics of this. "High-end" wire is a luxury good. 90% of its "value" to the consumer purchasing it is found solely in the price that they pay for it. It is just one more way for the buyer to stroke his ego, knowing that he just blew a ton of money and bought something that the vast majority of people can't afford. You play the role of the emperor's tailor in all this. You know in your head that it's all crap, but you have to sell it. Everyone with any sense can see that its enefit is simply not there, but you have to comfort the fool with the money. Stroke his ego a bit for him. "Explain" to him the "science" behind the superiority of the wire he just bought. Unfortunately for you it seems that you have spent to long listening to your own BS and now you believe it yourself.

 

[slick rick 10+ year member]

You know it's funny...he jumps to the conclusion that all of us poor cretins are beneath him and his almighty ears. We just don't know any better because we aren't elite enough to know the true difference that $3k in wire can make to a system. After all the guy with a degree in psychoacoustics knows that your ears are a perfect measuring tool and that differences that cannot be measured with any but the most sensitive and expensive of test equipment are "easily distinguished" by the ear. Richard Clark has $10K for you. Go collect it. Do it once for the amps. Oh, then you can do it again for the interconnects. And, hell, why not once again for the speaker wire. If the differences are so obvious to you, why don't you go make some easy money?
You made your living convincing a bunch of snobs that they "must have" the latest and greatest wire. And that they "must have" all manner of gimmicks. You then hide behind your degree as proof that you know what you are talking about. I've met all manner of people with all manner of degrees that I wouldn't trust with anything that they supposedly have an education in. The "research" that you quote is about as credible as tobacco company research that shows that there are no harmful effects from smoking. A wire making company publishes their own data that "clearly shows" that their wire is superior to everything else on the market and we're supposed to blindly listen to what they have to say. They're engineers, right? They should know their material, right? They speak from a position of superior knowlege, right? They aren't trying to make money and are therefore totally frank and unbiased and don't bury the real issue in a load of irrelevant horseshit, ri...oooh, not so right.

Ok, whatever. Whatever you gotta tell yourself to be able to sleep at night knowing that you have made a living as a snake-oil salesman.

Let's delve into the economics of this. "High-end" wire is a luxury good. 90% of its "value" to the consumer purchasing it is found solely in the price that they pay for it. It is just one more way for the buyer to stroke his ego, knowing that he just blew a ton of money and bought something that the vast majority of people can't afford. You play the role of the emperor's tailor in all this. You know in your head that it's all crap, but you have to sell it. Everyone with any sense can see that its enefit is simply not there, but you have to comfort the fool with the money. Stroke his ego a bit for him. "Explain" to him the "science" behind the superiority of the wire he just bought. Unfortunately for you it seems that you have spent to long listening to your own BS and now you believe it yourself.

I concur with this post.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

You know what's wild.....you can use tripple gold plated platinum wire but you are still limited to the quality and thickness of the tinsel leads that connect the terminals on the speaker to the voice coil //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

You know it's funny...he jumps to the conclusion that all of us poor cretins are beneath him and his almighty ears. We just don't know any better because we aren't elite enough to know the true difference that $3k in wire can make to a system. After all the guy with a degree in psychoacoustics knows that your ears are a perfect measuring tool and that differences that cannot be measured with any but the most sensitive and expensive of test equipment are "easily distinguished" by the ear. Richard Clark has $10K for you. Go collect it. Do it once for the amps. Oh, then you can do it again for the interconnects. And, hell, why not once again for the speaker wire. If the differences are so obvious to you, why don't you go make some easy money?
You made your living convincing a bunch of snobs that they "must have" the latest and greatest wire. And that they "must have" all manner of gimmicks. You then hide behind your degree as proof that you know what you are talking about. I've met all manner of people with all manner of degrees that I wouldn't trust with anything that they supposedly have an education in. The "research" that you quote is about as credible as tobacco company research that shows that there are no harmful effects from smoking. A wire making company publishes their own data that "clearly shows" that their wire is superior to everything else on the market and we're supposed to blindly listen to what they have to say. They're engineers, right? They should know their material, right? They speak from a position of superior knowlege, right? They aren't trying to make money and are therefore totally frank and unbiased and don't bury the real issue in a load of irrelevant horseshit, ri...oooh, not so right.

Ok, whatever. Whatever you gotta tell yourself to be able to sleep at night knowing that you have made a living as a snake-oil salesman.

Let's delve into the economics of this. "High-end" wire is a luxury good. 90% of its "value" to the consumer purchasing it is found solely in the price that they pay for it. It is just one more way for the buyer to stroke his ego, knowing that he just blew a ton of money and bought something that the vast majority of people can't afford. You play the role of the emperor's tailor in all this. You know in your head that it's all crap, but you have to sell it. Everyone with any sense can see that its enefit is simply not there, but you have to comfort the fool with the money. Stroke his ego a bit for him. "Explain" to him the "science" behind the superiority of the wire he just bought. Unfortunately for you it seems that you have spent to long listening to your own BS and now you believe it yourself.

I don't have an opinion either way. If it makes a difference, my noob ears couldn't hear it so it matters not to me.
My observation with this thread is that there is WAY too much similarity to religious debate and we are talking about THE IMPACT OF METAL IN CARRYING ELECTRICITY TO MAKE VIBRATIONS.

Some of you sound like ranting prophets desperate to awaken the doomed and ignorant so they can cast their blasphemous eyes on the glory of your WIRE.

Debate is cool, its a valid conversation with two arguable sides, but ****, WHERE does the emotional investment come into play!?

Thanks for answering my question about why emotional investment comes into play

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

I concur with this post.

I concur with your concurrence.

nG

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Anyone know if werewolf is a registered member here?

 

[Ayrton 10+ year member]

I just want my free post before the lock.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[BassAce 10+ year member]

It really only comes down to RLC analysis. For any two cables to sound different, there will have to be an audible difference in their RLC properties (R = resistance, L = inductance, C = capacitance). If the differences in the RLC properties are within inaudible tolerances, they will sound identical.
Now, does that mean all cables sound the same? Hell no.

What it does mean though, is that we know what specific differences must exist for two cables to sound different, and we can measure for those differences. And, the chances are very high that the majority of cables on the market will have inaudible differences in their RLC properties, meaning they will sound the same. If the two cables sound different, we can measure the difference. If it doesn't affect the RLC, it's just marketing.

Excellent read for more information on the topic: http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...8&pagenumber=1

You know it's funny...he jumps to the conclusion that all of us poor cretins are beneath him and his almighty ears. We just don't know any better because we aren't elite enough to know the true difference that $3k in wire can make to a system. After all the guy with a degree in psychoacoustics knows that your ears are a perfect measuring tool and that differences that cannot be measured with any but the most sensitive and expensive of test equipment are "easily distinguished" by the ear. Richard Clark has $10K for you. Go collect it. Do it once for the amps. Oh, then you can do it again for the interconnects. And, hell, why not once again for the speaker wire. If the differences are so obvious to you, why don't you go make some easy money?
You made your living convincing a bunch of snobs that they "must have" the latest and greatest wire. And that they "must have" all manner of gimmicks. You then hide behind your degree as proof that you know what you are talking about. I've met all manner of people with all manner of degrees that I wouldn't trust with anything that they supposedly have an education in. The "research" that you quote is about as credible as tobacco company research that shows that there are no harmful effects from smoking. A wire making company publishes their own data that "clearly shows" that their wire is superior to everything else on the market and we're supposed to blindly listen to what they have to say. They're engineers, right? They should know their material, right? They speak from a position of superior knowlege, right? They aren't trying to make money and are therefore totally frank and unbiased and don't bury the real issue in a load of irrelevant horseshit, ri...oooh, not so right.

Ok, whatever. Whatever you gotta tell yourself to be able to sleep at night knowing that you have made a living as a snake-oil salesman.

Let's delve into the economics of this. "High-end" wire is a luxury good. 90% of its "value" to the consumer purchasing it is found solely in the price that they pay for it. It is just one more way for the buyer to stroke his ego, knowing that he just blew a ton of money and bought something that the vast majority of people can't afford. You play the role of the emperor's tailor in all this. You know in your head that it's all crap, but you have to sell it. Everyone with any sense can see that its enefit is simply not there, but you have to comfort the fool with the money. Stroke his ego a bit for him. "Explain" to him the "science" behind the superiority of the wire he just bought. Unfortunately for you it seems that you have spent to long listening to your own BS and now you believe it yourself.

I just want my free post before the lock.

Rust affects sound quality.

I'm pretty sure.

I hope so.

___________________________________________//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif___________________________________________//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif________________

 

[req 5,000+ posts]

i was just going to say, all this "interconnect" bullshit aside.

what about the contact between the actual wires and the terminals?? tinsel leads, solder joints, and all that jazzy snazzy stuff? and im pretty sure the LENGTH of the wire has more to do with the resistance ect than the materials.

i think that the impedance shift from the terminals and surface area actually touching here would change the properties more than the actual wire itself. because you loose all your "oxygen free mega-acoustic super illidified deoxodized low-temp-extruded quad*die*fidycent brick-wall tripple crossover ultrastatic wire shield" and now its just plain old wire. lawl.

one time, i switched the "high end wire" in a stereo at a shop, and then asked them to show me the demo. basicaly how its supposed to work, there are two sets of wire, Belkin cheap $2 wires, and super high end $XXX.XX wires. it was for both audio and video, and i changed the tv\video inputs on the back, so input 1 was cheap, and input 2 was espensive, when its supposed to be the opposite. he came over (was a head salesman or whatever) and showed the difference in video quality on the screen to me and asked me if i heard the warmth in the sound (it was an orchrista video with some audiophiole recording) and i laughed at him, and then i told him i switched the wires on the back, and he was preaching about the wrong wires.

i was promptly asked to leave the store lol.

ive tried many kinds of wires, and my CD2 horns always sound the same without changing the settings on the crossover \ headunit \ amps.

but then again, i guess im just a criton with medicore equipment if it does not cost $3000 per metre //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[thch 10+ year member]

i love discussions about wires.

skin effect mentioned -- check.

peizoelectric effects mentioned -- check

cable direction mentioned -- not check

monocrystalline structures -- not check

c'mon guys. losing ground here.

IMO if shiny wires are enough to make things sound good, then they've done their jobs even if they've done nothing. i'd put the fancy wires at a lower priority then a good install, good source unit, good speakers, ect...

 

[req 5,000+ posts]

amen brother //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Speaking of psychoacoustics, anyone rememeber the ECA thread where they compared burned CD's?

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=126052 Anyway, nice story Req, the look on his face must have been priceless.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

Speaking of psychoacoustics, anyone rememeber the ECA thread where they compared burned CD's?http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=126052 Anyway, nice story Req, the look on his face must have been priceless.

wow what a load of Horseshit... garbage in garbage out... if the original is flawed copying it will make a flawed copy... anyways...