Sound Deadener Showdown?

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

SDS is the only stuff I'd run other then Second skin. I might grab it this time instead just to play with something different.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Are you smoking crack today? Sound deadener is an important part of SPL and chasing every last tenth of a db. A real competitor would know this.

How so? There are only two things vibration damper can do to increase SPL. In each case it is a terrible choice. The first would be panel stiffening. You're much better off using something that's rigid. Just as importantly, vibration damper works by converting vibration (which can become sound) into heat (which can't). This is why some people apply vibration damper and report slight improvement and others do the same thing and report slight losses.

The other potential use is for sealing air leaks. This is probably the biggest factor behind increased scores. Easy to see many better options that don't bring offsetting conversion of energy with them.

I never claimed to be a competitor. If I was, I'd be asking myself where energy is lost and what I can do to conserve it. If I didn't want to figure these things out, I wouldn't just do what everybody else who hadn't thought about it did and expect a different outcome. SPL is objective science. I'd expect a competitor to understand the basic physics involved. I sell these products. If they really did what people thought they did, I'd be touting their virtues as SPL tools.

 

---------- Post added at 05:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------

 

Thanks to everyone for the kind words - really means a lot to me.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

How much power do you have to push, to notice a difference in usin' deadener? In everyone's eye?

This gets back to what you want to accomplish. Treating a vehicle can drastically improve the sound from a stock system. How much power is that? 10 Watts? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[SPL Blazer 10+ year member]

How so? There are only two things vibration damper can do to increase SPL. In each case it is a terrible choice. The first would be panel stiffening. You're much better off using something that's rigid. Just as importantly, vibration damper works by converting vibration (which can become sound) into heat (which can't). This is why some people apply vibration damper and report slight improvement and others do the same thing and report slight losses.
The other potential use is for sealing air leaks. This is probably the biggest factor behind increased scores. Easy to see many better options that don't bring offsetting conversion of energy with them.

I never claimed to be a competitor. If I was, I'd be asking myself where energy is lost and what I can do to conserve it. If I didn't want to figure these things out, I wouldn't just do what everybody else who hadn't thought about it did and expect a different outcome. SPL is objective science. I'd expect a competitor to understand the basic physics involved. I sell these products. If they really did what people thought they did, I'd be touting their virtues as SPL tools.

 

---------- Post added at 05:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------

 

Thanks to everyone for the kind words - really means a lot to me.

With deadener Every competitor I've known gains by adding it. What becomes the challenge is finding out where you need it and where you don't. Sometimes you may need a double layer on one section of a panel, or just a single layer, or none at all. And then need it doubled on a different panel. The loudest street vehicles out there use plenty of deadener, if they didn't they wouldn't be where they are now. There is a bit of use of physics involved in SPL, but testing Everything is where you find your gains and losses. People that are extremely knowledgable in the area of SQ or the physics behind music and sound reproduction do very well in SQ, but **** when it comes to SPL. Being smart on paper or in the classroom doesn't mean a thing when you get in the lanes, I've seen it several times at my shows.

 

[fish1234 10+ year member]

With deadener Every competitor I've known gains by adding it. What becomes the challenge is finding out where you need it and where you don't. Sometimes you may need a double layer on one section of a panel, or just a single layer, or none at all. And then need it doubled on a different panel. The loudest street vehicles out there use plenty of deadener, if they didn't they wouldn't be where they are now. There is a bit of use of physics involved in SPL, but testing Everything is where you find your gains and losses. People that are extremely knowledgable in the area of SQ or the physics behind music and sound reproduction do very well in SQ, but **** when it comes to SPL. Being smart on paper or in the classroom doesn't mean a thing when you get in the lanes, I've seen it several times at my shows.

What are generally speaking some of the weaker areas on or in a vehicle?

 

[SPL Blazer 10+ year member]

depends on the vehicle, each vehicle is gonna be different and thats why testing becomes a major part of it. The roof could be a major part in a lot of vehicles, but the quarter panels or the outside door panels might be the major issue in another vehicle.

 

[fire_mike 10+ year member]

The use of sound deadener in SPL is common and helpfull. One way to make the panels stiffer is by adding deadener. The stiff panel means that the sound energy is not transfered to the exterior of the vehicle as easily as a bare panel. The roof is a big place to lose energy to the outside world. Not every class is allowed to modify the vehicle with added on panels, concrete, etc., so sound deadening is the closest they can get.

Years ago I built a 4 door Geo Metro that competed in the Pro-Stock class. We had to keep the box in the hatch below the level of the seats and windows. That car had a lot of sound damper in it, and it did help (we had our own term meter to test with). The car hit 151.x db, and it took 5th at world finals in it's class (**** CRX's).

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

I absolutely did not say that it wasn't possible to see gains in SPL using vibration damper. What I'm saying is that it isn't the most effective way to stiffen a panel by a long shot and that there is a counterproductive mechanism in play. Use a more effective stiffening approach and eliminate the viscoelastic conversion of vibration to heat and there will be a bigger gain.

 

[Suicide Bobb 5,000+ posts]

The use of sound deadener in SPL is common and helpfull. One way to make the panels stiffer is by adding deadener. The stiff panel means that the sound energy is not transfered to the exterior of the vehicle as easily as a bare panel. The roof is a big place to lose energy to the outside world. Not every class is allowed to modify the vehicle with added on panels, concrete, etc., so sound deadening is the closest they can get.
Years ago I built a 4 door Geo Metro that competed in the Pro-Stock class. We had to keep the box in the hatch below the level of the seats and windows. That car had a lot of sound damper in it, and it did help (we had our own term meter to test with). The car hit 151.x db, and it took 5th at world finals in it's class (**** CRX's).

And that's where I stopped reading.

 

[fire_mike 10+ year member]

And that's where I stopped reading.

Why?

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

because he doesn't know what he is talking about. He thinks a stiff panel will resonate, but it's the weakness in the panel causing it to resonate NOT the stiffness. Try to get stone to resonate it's very stiff.

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

Oh and starting now every time I get groaned I'm deterring one person from buying AT deadener. Remember nuthuggers your douchebaggery is losing your company business.

 

[slim2fattycake 10+ year member]

With deadener Every competitor I've known gains by adding it. What becomes the challenge is finding out where you need it and where you don't. Sometimes you may need a double layer on one section of a panel, or just a single layer, or none at all. And then need it doubled on a different panel. The loudest street vehicles out there use plenty of deadener, if they didn't they wouldn't be where they are now. There is a bit of use of physics involved in SPL, but testing Everything is where you find your gains and losses. People that are extremely knowledgable in the area of SQ or the physics behind music and sound reproduction do very well in SQ, but **** when it comes to SPL. Being smart on paper or in the classroom doesn't mean a thing when you get in the lanes, I've seen it several times at my shows.

Having the knowledge makes things a lot easier to understand what you did and what the next direction needs to be with your data. And I have known countless competitors that have lost dBs from deadening. Sorry but deadening with deadener isn't going to be a positive all the time. What Don said is a way more effective way of doing what you want.

 

[Suicide Bobb 5,000+ posts]

Why?

The stiff panel means that the sound energy is not transfered to the exterior of the vehicle as easily as a bare panel.

That's why. If I need to explain the ignorance here, then you really should quit talking about deadener lol

 

[brodeisel 10+ year member]

Oh and starting now every time I get groaned I'm deterring one person from buying AT deadener. Remember nuthuggers your douchebaggery is losing your company business.

LOl i thought no one on the internet would bother you.