Sound Deadener Question - COSTS AudioTechnix vs. SoundDeadener Showdown

[singleton 10+ year member]

Let me see if I am looking at this right as far as costs to do both my front doors on a '98 Lexus ES300:

Option No. 1: AudioTechnix - B-stock 60 mil

(1) roll of 25 SF @ $40/EA + approx $15 s/h = $55 (total cost)

Option No. 2: SoundDeadener Showdown - per ftp://ftp.sounddeadenershowdown.com/tutorials/doors.pdf

(7) CLD Tiles 6x10 @ $2.65/EA = $18.55

(1) 3/8"x15' Extruded Butly Rope Roll = $8.75

(2) Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV) 36"x54" @ $26.00/EA = $52.00

(2) Vinyl/Nitrile Closed Cell Foam (CCF) 1/8"x36”x54” @ $14.95/EA = $29.90

(1) Vinyl Cement 8oz = $8.50

(1) 2x4 adhesive one side 10pk = $12.00

Approximate shipping = $20

Total Cost = approximately $150

So Option No. 1 = $55 vs. Option No. 2 = $150 (almost $100 MORE?!)

Also was wondering if 60 mil is ok versus the 80 mil and also if the B-stock is ok (I have read a many of threads saying that the b-stock was fine, but just wanted to ask again considering the disclamer on their website and the large cost savings) Also, I am assuming that the 25SF roll of AudioTechnix B-stock would be enough for 2 front doors? Do you use this to go over the holes of the inner holes in the doors or do you need to lay some type of aluminum over it before placing the b-stock deadener over it?

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[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

the second option is by far the best, but it's not really an apple to oranges comparison.

Not exactly sure what your asking though.

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

If you're looking to "control" your doors to the point where they sound good option 2 is what you should go for. For the average joe just a roll of deadener will do the trick. If I were you, I would order a roll of the AT and install it. If you aren't satisfied, goto SDS and get the MLV/CCF

 

[singleton 10+ year member]

I am looking for the doors to be controled in regards to rattling and so the component speakers I am planning on installing will sound better than with nothing in the doors. I am not looking to block out all outside noise, because I do not plan on doing the rear doors and my windows are of the type that they are frameless so you get a little wind noise already.

I do like the option of installing the AT and seeing how it works first, I just didn't know if I should go to the added expense of the SDS if I am not looking necessarily for the "pro" top of the line type solution - although I am sure that SDS is worth the money it costs and more - I just on a bit of a budget at the moment and I was noticing the large costs difference between the two setups and wanted to make sure I was adding up all of the necessary SDS components approximately.

I understand that they are not completely apples to apples products, I was just wondering for what I need if I was to go with the AT B-stock 60 mil would I be wasting the $55 or should I have just done it right the first time and spent $150? Sorry if it is a bit confusing what I am asking.

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

To stop rattle the AT will work fine, just keep in mind it won't necessarily stop your door from flexing (my door flexes around 1/2" both ways but it doesn't make a sound). Your midbass will go up a bit, especially if you use some weather stripping to help seal up the speaker itself against the door. MLV/CCF will help block road noise, but if that isn't your main goal then I wouldn't really worry about it

 

[singleton 10+ year member]

I am ok with the flexing, I am just worried about the rattle and my speakers sounding much better than without any sound deadening performed. If the MLV/CCF is merely to help block road noise, could I instead just use the CLD tiles on both the exterior and interior portions of the door? If I was to just use the CLD tiles, would I still need to cover the holes present on the interior portion of the door with some type of aluminum adhesive tape?

 

[murph 10+ year member]

AT for sure, it will stop the rattles. The MLV/CCF stops sound from getting in and really can make a set of speakers shine. The quieter the ride the better the speakers will sound.

 

[Flex68 10+ year member]

Just went through this whole pricing comparison, "which is better" deal myself, and I can offer this remark from first-hand experience:

Don at SDS is the only way I will ever go in the future!

I got my CLD tiles and butyl rope from him, and my MLV from somewhere else. Mistake on my part!

I should have followed his detailed suggestions/quote from the beginning, since what little I saved was on a product that compares pretty poorly to the samples he sent me of his stuff.

Not to mention how professional he is: the boxes and packaging that he used, alone, spoke to the very high level of quality of him and his company.

I highly recommend that you heed whatever suggestion he makes for products/coverage, and buy from him.

There are other "good" deadening/damping stuff out there, but I wouldn't suggest any other products ahead of his!

(And, yes, I am so impressed that I am likely approaching "nuthugger" status as far as SDS is concerned, lol)

 

[NutHugger 10+ year member]

It's pretty simple to see. You have lots of options with sds. If you take the time to read his guides etc you can make your vehicle sound pretty good. BUT, the gains over laying those products properly vs AT properly are difficult to spot by the layman. Chances are you wouldn't even notice. I say this not to push someone in one direction or another, but to take a cost vs performance look at it. It's like someone coming on here and saying "I can get this 1500w amp for 100 and this 1750w amp for 200. Which should I go with?" Since we know they both do what they say they will do, and the difference is so small it's imperceivable, the answer is clear. There are a lot of nuthuggers on this forum... thus my name. That's why they are so loyal to a brand saying x is WAY better than y.... when in reality that may not really be the case and they have NOT used both so they don't really know. People like me have used both. Admittedly I haven't had every sds product out there. They ARE good. Great even. But are they THAT much better? Probably if i was into sq competition, but for my use no. AT is more than adequate and fits in my budget. It's a nice product professionally done and with great customer service.

 

[Flex68 10+ year member]

Option No. 1: AudioTechnix - B-stock 60 mil

(1) roll of 25 SF @ $40/EA + approx $15 s/h = $55 (total cost)

Option No. 2: SoundDeadener Showdown

(7) CLD Tiles 6x10 @ $2.65/EA = $18.55

(1) 3/8"x15' Extruded Butly Rope Roll = $8.75

(2) Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV) 36"x54" @ $26.00/EA = $52.00

(2) Vinyl/Nitrile Closed Cell Foam (CCF) 1/8"x36”x54” @ $14.95/EA = $29.90

(1) Vinyl Cement 8oz = $8.50

(1) 2x4 adhesive one side 10pk = $12.00

Approximate shipping = $20

Comparing apples to oranges, imho.

One is for a single product (and I am not crapping on it or its quality), while the other is for several products which yield 'complete' damping/deadening.... $100 difference is well worth it, I should think.

After all, what is $100 nowadays....? Esp in a car audio install

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

I have no idea what anything in the "No. 2" list is other than CLD tiles. Anybody wanna break that down for me?

 

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

I have no idea what anything in the "No. 2" list is other than CLD tiles. Anybody wanna break that down for me?

Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

Sound Deadener Showdown - Your Source for Sound Deadening Products and Information

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Options 1 and 2 are apples to oranges and option 2 isn't one I'd give for front doors only. I don't have exact measurements for a '98 Lexus ES300, but it's likely that you'd need 5 CLD Tiles to get to 25% coverage for each outer skin, 1 tile to cut up into smaller pieces for each inner skin and possibly one more for the trim panel.

I suspect the gap between the side impact intrusion protection beam and outer skin is filled on your car so unless you plan to use the Extruded Butyl Rope to seal a speaker mounting plate or something similar, you wouldn't need any.

The ideal location for MLV is between the inner door skin and trim panel, so how much MLV you'd need would depend on the size of the trim panel and the fact that MLV comes on a 54" wide roll. I can cut any length you'd need so it's likely you'd be able to get by with much less. If you really wanted to go all out, I'd suggest a layer of 3M Thinsulate Acoustic which would push the cost up. Since you're in North Carolina and I'm in Maryland, $20 may cover shipping but remember that you were estimating 27 ft² of MLV. Stuff's heavy - just that and a box has you close to 30 pounds.

Aside from all of that, the more important question is what are you trying to accomplish. No vibration damper alone is going to completely stop rattles unless you use it improperly. It will help but you should really consider it a tool to fight resonance. Panel resonance is a problem because it reinforces the music you are playing at the panel's resonant frequency and harmonics thereof. No way to EQ that out. The panel is almost completely transparent to sound at its resonant frequency and that's the crappy droning/humming/buzzing sound you hear from outside of the car. 25% coverage of the sheet metal with a quality vibration damper is enough to control resonance.

If your sheet metal is distorting in response to the pressures you are creating, you need to reinforce the sheet metal with something strong and rigid. That's not vibration damper. Brace it.

Rattles are always two or more hard objects, one or more of which is vibrating, making intermittent contact. Vibration damper can reduce rattles by reducing the energy available to drive them but that's an indirect approach. The direct approach is either mobilizing the object(s) that is/are moving or to put something soft and resilient between them to stop them from making contact.

A perfect example of this is the rear license plate on a car with a trunk. Always rattles if there are subs in the trunk. You could slather vibration damper all over the interior of the trunk and hope to starve the rattle or you could glue 25 cents worth of closed cell foam to the back of the license plate and solve the problem completely, every time.

The next possibility is improving the performance of your door mounted speakers by acoustically isolating the front and rear waves they produce. A barrier in the speaker mounting plane does this very well. That's what the MLV and CCF are for, part of what they are for anyway. You could accomplish the same thing by covering the inner skin in 6 or 8 layers of vibration damper, but that would be stupidly expensive and a mess when you needed to get back inside the door for anything.

The other thing the CCF and MLV do is block external noise intrusion. As has been mentioned, this makes a big difference in musical reproduction - the less noise what you want to hear has to compete with, the better off you are. Inner skin placement has the advantage of putting noise entering the door through the front, rear, top and bottom behind the barrier. Putting a barrier on the outer skin makes it harder to hear your door mounted speakers from outside the vehicle.

In any case, if you're going to compare vibration dampers, you'd be comparing 12 or 14 CLD Tiles alone. When you start talking about all of the there things it's possible to do with a door you get into other materials. There is no one product that will solve all of your problems.

Hope that helps.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Also, for apples to apples you should compare B-Stock CLD Tiles. They're $1.25 per when I have them. That's $28.85 shipped to anywhere in the US for 14. $22.66 to NC. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[TaylorFade 10+ year member]

Also, for apples to apples you should compare B-Stock CLD Tiles. They're $1.25 per when I have them. That's $28.85 shipped to anywhere in the US for 14. $22.66 to NC. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

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