lol, i learned in elementary that i need to keep my mind occupied, usually 2 things at once, or more. they tried pills, and that just made me a retarded zombie. music helps, i work on electronics, hit the forums, clean the garage, and other things all at the same time on a regular basis. i digress, though....really, if you want to get discounts, earn them. find a shop with good people, find rich friends and bring good business in with you. after a few g's in sales, they will most likely be giving you a percentage they can afford, without asking, and you should not throw it back in their face. you also have to realize that not all shops are paying the same cost from manufacturers. many negotiate the cost. i can tell you i had over 6g's go through the door before even making my first major purchase, and that was them giving me huge discount. i've been pretty loyal to them, even though i still look everywhere, and i often get things at, or way below cost. only chance of a first-time discount, is to look around at what you can afford, talk with them about the equipment, and your ideas/feelings about the system, etc, and when it is time to ring out, you might ask "what kind of price am i looking at" if there is a considerable amount being spent. many are usually inclined to throw a discount in there for big packages, or the prces might already be low enough. but, remember one thing: they are used to people regularly bringing up internet pricing, or box store pricing, so bringing it up will just annoy them. the owner should already be aware, and not be offering the same exact product, or has already factored in what that internet price is after shipping, plus not having to wait for it to arrive. otherwise, he probably wouldn't be in business.