Seriously now... IA 20.1 vs. Orion 2500D NO BS

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

well, let me know why I'm wrong... or what I'm misunderstanding.
If thats not hte proper method, I wont use it anymore.

.707 drives rms, its the average of the peak and valley of the wave...

Since "peak" meters is VERY hard to find today (already have rms meters built in) your basically taking the RMS of the RMS...

All of the meters are already RMS...unless your using some cheap po-dunk thing from the late 1990's...

Its kind of hard to drive RMS from an RMS equation...

The only way you could use .707...is if you do NOT have any sort of RMS metering systems, Voltage or Current related....

Basically you are taking the RMS of the RMS...and cheating yourself out of power...

 

[Bumpin' Yota 10+ year member]

Why would the amp not be putting out a pure sine wave?
Why would clipping mean you no longer multiply by .707?

Why would me sending 60hz through the amp be any different than measuring 60hz from my outlet... could I not set the amp to put out 120v @ 60hz and power any AC appliance the amp could handle?

Which btw... "your hero" noted the 2500d would do around 3500 watts on a good 18v system, which is just about right on par with my 3300 RMS watts from a 16v system... I doubt he was talking about max power in that situation.

Bro, Nick is correct. The 0.707 is merely and average of power over time. If you were to look at a sine wave on an oscilliscope you'd see the "wavy" line repeatedly cross the Xaxis. The power seen is EXACTLY the area btwn that curve and the X axis. You multiply the peak amplitude by 0.707 to attain a ROUGH average of this area, but the only true way to determine power is to take an integral of the formula for that sine....

Now applying that into real life, if you are using an amp to power a 4ohm resistor, you can still use the 0.707 deal simply because the resistor literally only resists.

A sub will not do this. A sub by definition is a reactive load, and at different points in it's stroke the amp is going to see different impeadances - this is the case even when you are only playing one frequency. The reactive impeadance you get from dividing voltage by current is merely and average load. Just as the measured current and voltage from a clamp and dmm are averages. To then multiply by .707 makes even less sense and only serves to add inaccuracy to your measured reactive system.

Secondarily in those results the power output of each sub was approx 1500watts at a begining 12.8v, with severely limited voltage, I'd be willing to bet that voltage sank to 10.4 or so....

ps - if anyone sees any innaccuracies in my post please lemme know.

pps - I am not trying to down anyone in this post. I have a lot of respect for ANYONE in the lanes, particularly someone who has won their class in world finals....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Bumpin' Yota 10+ year member]

maybe .707 as an efficiency rating?
When looking at the voltage x current method, it seems as though that formula doesn't account for an efficiency of any kind. Unless efficiency doesn't have to be calculated in to this kind of measurement.

Scottie addressed this as well...hehehe but I thought Id add a little bit for fun! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Remember the first post about how even the clamp and DMM method isnt quite right? Well that's also because in an inductive load the voltage leads current by a few degrees of phase. (I dont know how much out of phase, but Im sure it depends upon the inductance of that coil along with other things...) These two values being out of phase also serves to reduce total power that the coil sees. Power companies often put large capacitors in series with their setups so as to keep the phase of the current and voltage together....

 

[IA2 10+ year member]

read, refresh, read, refresh, read, refresh.........fun times

 

[flakko 5,000+ posts]

You da mang!
Flakko, what resistive loads does USamps have? Like Scottie said, make sure it can dissipate 80A or slightly more (just to be safe). What's the testing procedure? 400A supply. I've talked to some more people and they all seem to agree that a 1 ohm is the lowest you'll need. So like 4, 2, and 1 would be cool. 12, 14, 17V? 12, 13.8, 14.4, 16V?

will you be setting the gains with an o-scope? then just burping them with the loads?

Do I need to get my amp from Cincinnati today?

(It's the only chance I'll have to get it this weekend.)

oh shoot i didnt read this...

im pretty sure they can dissipate 80a...i mean theyre gonna have to test a really really really REALLY big amp soon i believe it can handle a 20.1

they mainly use a .5 ohm resistive load on all thier ax's, and i think the Merlins. but a 4 2 1 shouldnt be a problem.

They are going to use an o-scope.

i think 12, 13.8, 14.4, 16/17 is what we gonna do.

ill have more details tomorrow. also LMK if you shipped it jason.

 

[HCCAfan]

hey flako, the orion 2500d will need a jumper pulled for it to run 16 volt. the protection kicks in at 15.8 i do believe.

 

[flakko 5,000+ posts]

hey flako, the orion 2500d will need a jumper pulled for it to run 16 volt. the protection kicks in at 15.8 i do believe.

kay. dang gotta write all this crap down... my inferior mind cannot handle all this information.

can the 2500d handle 17v?

 

[HCCAfan]

yes, with the jumper pulled.

 

[flakko 5,000+ posts]

okay. so this test is going to be mainly for SPL purposes rite? wats the HIghest THD do you guys want?

 

[btnhfan 5,000+ posts]

This actually turned into a pretty informative thread.

Although its completely off topic.

 

[Spkrman]

Bro' date=' Nick is correct. The 0.707 is merely and average of power over time. If you were to look at a sine wave on an oscilliscope you'd see the "wavy" line repeatedly cross the Xaxis. The power seen is EXACTLY the area btwn that curve and the X axis. You multiply the peak amplitude by 0.707 to attain a ROUGH average of this area, but the only true way to determine power is to take an integral of the formula for that sine....
Now applying that into real life, if you are using an amp to power a 4ohm resistor, you can still use the 0.707 deal simply because the resistor literally only resists.

A sub will not do this. A sub by definition is a reactive load, and at different points in it's stroke the amp is going to see different impeadances - this is the case even when you are only playing one frequency. The reactive impeadance you get from dividing voltage by current is merely and average load. Just as the measured current and voltage from a clamp and dmm are averages. To then multiply by .707 makes even less sense and only serves to add inaccuracy to your measured reactive system.

Secondarily in those results the power output of each sub was approx 1500watts at a begining 12.8v, with severely limited voltage, I'd be willing to bet that voltage sank to 10.4 or so....

ps - if anyone sees any innaccuracies in my post please lemme know.

pps - I am not trying to down anyone in this post. I have a lot of respect for ANYONE in the lanes, particularly someone who has won their class in world finals....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif[/quote']

Alright... thats all I was going for //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

I don't mind being wrong, lol, its not the end of the world.

In that case, hooray for the 4700 watt 2500d //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 

[Spkrman]

hey flako, the orion 2500d will need a jumper pulled for it to run 16 volt. the protection kicks in at 15.8 i do believe.

You actually have to pull a resistor on the protection board, pretty simple process.

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

You know, I'm not a mind reader or anything... but I HIGHLY doubt Melinko wants anyone thumbing around the internals of his amp. (Just a guess.)

The amps did NOT ship, as I never was able to get ahold of Craig last night. Looks like this test will be delayed a week or two.

 

[ChuteBoxe515 10+ year member]

whoa whoa whoa, I have been gone for a day and everything blew up...what the hell are you gonna be doing inside of my amp?

UCP-I had to work all day yesterday and didnt get your voice mail until like 2 am...PM me with whatever you want to do...this Kia rental car may hinder the box, but I can drive the truck to get it...I can come by anytime after today.

EVERYONE INVOLVED (flakko, UCP) get ahold of me ASAP...flakko-you need to run down with me everything you plan on doing with our very pretty and expensive equipment!

 

[ChuteBoxe515 10+ year member]

off too work...expecting some voice mails and PMs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif