Senate passes 800 billion dollar stimulus without 1 member readind the actual bill!!!

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

No, I am going on your figurative version of ****.
In my idealistic form of 100% free markets, many people would barter as there are times when barter is more effecient than transactions using money. I see no problem with a person making $50MM or $500MM/yr for their job. If they made $50k, it wouldn't increase or decrease MY wage...so why should I worry about what they make. Fools who invest in Madoff and similar scandals should have read the prospectus. THIS INVESTMENT IS NOT GUARENTEED AND MAY LOSE VALUE. It says that in the beginning. You can chose not to invest.

You are forced to participate if you believe that HD Plasma TVs, cars, homes, etc are required for survival. I would argue that they are not and merely luxuries. People lived in caves for 1000s of years without an issue, why are they so different now? I don't participate in many of the things we "have to have" for instance, I only have the most limited cable...and in 2 months when the $19.99 promo expires, I will no longer have the internet. I can get along just fine with no internet and cable. I am not forced into these purchases.

as you said before, we need a depression to get perspective.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

personally I have no problem with capitalism in the sense that we are all responsible for making a way for ourselves and choosing our own paths...benefitting and failing based upon our own actions.
What I do have a problem with is criminals who aren't technically called criminals by our 'free market' justice system who get off free and like I said, **** the rest of us for a chunk of change.

What happened to the people in power at these banks that were failing after they stuffed their pockets with our money and fvcked half the country over? Oh, we gave them a bonus...

There are criminals in every form of market...If you don't believe that, or see it then the rest of the world needs that kool aid you are drinking. LOL

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

personally I have no problem with capitalism in the sense that we are all responsible for making a way for ourselves and choosing our own paths...benefitting and failing based upon our own actions.
What I do have a problem with is criminals who aren't technically called criminals by our 'free market' justice system who get off free and like I said, **** the rest of us for a chunk of change.

What happened to the people in power at these banks that were failing after they stuffed their pockets with our money and fvcked half the country over? Oh, we gave them a bonus...

That isn't capitalism, that is bullshit. What you said in the first part is what I think of when I think of capitalism.

 

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

personally I have no problem with capitalism in the sense that we are all responsible for making a way for ourselves and choosing our own paths...benefitting and failing based upon our own actions.
What I do have a problem with is criminals who aren't technically called criminals by our 'free market' justice system who get off free and like I said, **** the rest of us for a chunk of change.

What happened to the people in power at these banks that were failing after they stuffed their pockets with our money and fvcked half the country over? Oh, we gave them a bonus...

i've never been ripped off by a bank directly. it took government involvement and 700B before we really got ripped off. keyword in that sentence: government. money has always corrupted people. it doesn't matter if it's capitalism, socialism, communism marxism, etc.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

No, I am going on your figurative version of ****.
In my idealistic form of 100% free markets, many people would barter as there are times when barter is more effecient than transactions using money. I see no problem with a person making $50MM or $500MM/yr for their job. If they made $50k, it wouldn't increase or decrease MY wage...so why should I worry about what they make. Fools who invest in Madoff and similar scandals should have read the prospectus. THIS INVESTMENT IS NOT GUARENTEED AND MAY LOSE VALUE. It says that in the beginning. You can chose not to invest.

You are forced to participate if you believe that HD Plasma TVs, cars, homes, etc are required for survival. I would argue that they are not and merely luxuries. People lived in caves for 1000s of years without an issue, why are they so different now? I don't participate in many of the things we "have to have" for instance, I only have the most limited cable...and in 2 months when the $19.99 promo expires, I will no longer have the internet. I can get along just fine with no internet and cable. I am not forced into these purchases.

As I said in another post just now, I can accept capitalism and the free market in these ways. I guess my biggest concern is, if we are deciding we should even have laws at all, where do we draw the line between what is a crime and what isn't? (as far as business-related crime goes)

and while I do strongly dislike the mentality that this kind of society gives people morally, I (believe it or not) believe in freedom and the right to behave as you wish (within boundaries, which again, seem far too vague and inconsistent to me).

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

There are criminals in every form of market...If you don't believe that, or see it then the rest of the world needs that kool aid you are drinking. LOL

Capitalism, I believe, is a gateway for criminal mentalities and a lack of morals (which I personally believe are just as important as any other part of human life). Then again, you're right, other forms of market act in the same way at times. I guess I'm just questioning the idea that capitalism is the lesser of the evils.

That isn't capitalism, that is bullshit. What you said in the first part is what I think of when I think of capitalism.

True, so what is your idea of what kind of laws we should have? If any at all?

 

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

As I said in another post just now, I can accept capitalism and the free market in these ways. I guess my biggest concern is, if we are deciding we should even have laws at all, where do we draw the line between what is a crime and what isn't? (as far as business-related crime goes)
and while I do strongly dislike the mentality that this kind of society gives people morally, I (believe it or not) believe in freedom and the right to behave as you wish (within boundaries, which again, seem far too vague and inconsistent to me).

there are laws against theft. but men are corrupted by money. governments are corrupted by money also, which is far more dangerous, especially in a system where they have more control, like what we're moving to.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

As I said in another post just now, I can accept capitalism and the free market in these ways. I guess my biggest concern is, if we are deciding we should even have laws at all, where do we draw the line between what is a crime and what isn't? (as far as business-related crime goes)
and while I do strongly dislike the mentality that this kind of society gives people morally, I (believe it or not) believe in freedom and the right to behave as you wish (within boundaries, which again, seem far too vague and inconsistent to me).

Those questions have been asked since the beginning of time.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

In the true sense of capitalism, is there even really such thing as a 'crime'?

 

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

Capitalism, I believe, is a gateway for criminal mentalities and a lack of morals (which I personally believe are just as important as any other part of human life).


True, so what is your idea of what kind of laws we should have? If any at all?

there is more crime by % in socialist and communist countries:fyi:

 

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

In the true sense of capitalism, is there even really such thing as a 'crime'?

you're confusing anarchism with capitalism.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

you're confusing anarchism with capitalism.

what really is the difference?

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

He (Rashadd) is saying capitalism is synonymous with open competition on all fronts.

there is more crime by % in socialist and communist countries:fyi:

We're evil "socialists" up here with tighter gun control and yet we have lower crime, murder, and murder with firearm rates.

In fact, India, Portugal, and Venezuela (all adamantly socialist countries) have lower crime rates per capita than the US. The Netherlands, far more socialist than the US (though they do not officiallly claim themselves as socialists), has roughly the same crime rate as the US.

There are no usable figures for most of the Asian socialist countries, though, and for some that is a result of their government, unfortunately.

I'm not saying socialism is right for everyone....just saying drawing these links that many of you love to do (socialism = evil) are grossly exaggerated.

 

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

what really is the difference?

anarchism is what happens when capitalism falls apart. we might be able to see the difference first hand. otherwise use wiki

 

[azimuth 5,000+ posts]

He (Rashadd) is saying capitalism is synonymous with open competition on all fronts.


We're evil "socialists" up here with tighter gun control and yet we have lower crime, murder, and murder with firearm rates.

In fact, India, Portugal, and Venezuela (all adamantly socialist countries) have lower crime rates per capita than the US. The Netherlands, far more socialist than the US (though they do not officiallly claim themselves as socialists), has roughly the same crime rate as the US.

There are no usable figures for most of the Asian socialist countries, though, and for some that is a result of their government, unfortunately.

I'm not saying socialism is right for everyone....just saying drawing these links that many of you love to do (socialism = evil) are grossly exaggerated.

socialism isn't inherently evil, i agree. we have to take in to account also that india, for instance, doesn't prosecute the same for domestic violence. it skews the numbers. i see your point though.