Senate passes 800 billion dollar stimulus without 1 member readind the actual bill!!!

[DBBOOM 10+ year member]

What is your financial and political background that has provided this absolutely horrible misinformation?

Oh,IDK, maybe i witnessed the mass migration of our production industry go across borders and overseas, with it, our middle class income and job market. It made the rich heads of industries profit margin higher and at the same time wiped out hundreds of thousands of the middle classes sources of income, me being one. I had to retrain and enter another field of work. Also, if those production jobs were still in America, employment would most likely be at a lower % than it is now.

Sorry eh //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[terra 5,000+ posts]

I think everyone needs to just relax. Some of you guys are like, "Shit Obama won, the world is over."

Give me a break. We've had terrible presidents, and great presidents. Like him or not, we will still be here after Obama. We will still be here for many presidents to come. Instead of just complaining about the current situation, try to be proactive.

 

[LordHumongous]

IMO the best way to be proactive is to make sure another democrat gets elected, and we put a good republican in office next time.

Obama is already a fialure. After less than a month.

 

[kmanian 5,000+ posts]

I think everyone needs to just relax. Some of you guys are like, "Shit Obama won, the world is over."
Give me a break. We've had terrible presidents, and great presidents. Like him or not, we will still be here after Obama. We will still be here for many presidents to come. Instead of just complaining about the current situation, try to be proactive.

what would you consider to be proactive? activity starts with discussion.

As for "Shit Obama won, the world is over." that is absolutely not so, infact, when he won I was, more like, well my boy lost, we better get behind Obama and make the best of it!" but lying and doing complete 180's in the first month really makes me worry what all he can do wrong with 47 more months!

 

[Jmac 10+ year member]

Oh,IDK, maybe i witnessed the mass migration of our production industry go across borders and overseas, with it, our middle class income and job market. It made the rich heads of industries profit margin higher and at the same time wiped out hundreds of thousands of the middle classes sources of income, me being one. I had to retrain and enter another field of work. Also, if those production jobs were still in America, employment would most likely be at a lower % than it is now.
Sorry eh //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

NAFTA has nothing to do with jobs being migrated overseas. Thus why it is called the NORTH AMERICAN (Canada, USA, Mexico) Free Trade Agreement.
The greatly oversimplified summary is that NAFTA decreases or eliminates tariffs on goods traded between the 3 countries, lowering the cost of resources and manufacturing, allowing the countries to compete better on the world stage.

The US gets 1/4 of its oil from Canada. Without NAFTA, the US would pay billions, if not trillions, of dollars in tariffs for energy resources purchased from Canada (Oil, petroleum, natural gas, electricity, etc). Let's not forget food, minerals, metals, lumber, etc. that the US has to import to meet domestic demands that it can't fulfil itself.

Does the thought of a 30% higher cost of living for 350 million citizens sound like a good compromise for saving a few hundred thousand jobs that you'd eventually lose anyways ? Sure as hell doesn't sound like a good deal to me ...

 

[kmanian 5,000+ posts]

NAFTA has nothing to do with jobs being migrated overseas. Thus why it is called the NORTH AMERICAN (Canada, USA, Mexico) Free Trade Agreement.
The greatly oversimplified summary is that NAFTA decreases or eliminates tariffs on goods traded between the 3 countries, lowering the cost of resources and manufacturing, allowing the countries to compete better on the world stage.

The US gets 1/4 of its oil from Canada. Without NAFTA, the US would pay billions, if not trillions, of dollars in tariffs for energy resources purchased from Canada (Oil, petroleum, natural gas, electricity, etc). Let's not forget food, minerals, metals, lumber, etc. that the US has to import to meet domestic demands that it can't fulfil itself.

Does the thought of a 30% higher cost of living for 350 million citizens sound like a good compromise for saving a few hundred thousand jobs that you'd eventually lose anyways ? Sure as hell doesn't sound like a good deal to me ...

it is definately more complicated than that for sure. at the same time Canada would offset much of the billions by having to pay tariffs also. there is a loser somewhere. if it all works out even, why do it? and I seriously doubt the USA is the winner here.

 

[DBBOOM 10+ year member]

NAFTA has nothing to do with jobs being migrated overseas. Thus why it is called the NORTH AMERICAN (Canada, USA, Mexico) Free Trade Agreement.
The greatly oversimplified summary is that NAFTA decreases or eliminates tariffs on goods traded between the 3 countries, lowering the cost of resources and manufacturing, allowing the countries to compete better on the world stage.

The US gets 1/4 of its oil from Canada. Without NAFTA, the US would pay billions, if not trillions, of dollars in tariffs for energy resources purchased from Canada (Oil, petroleum, natural gas, electricity, etc). Let's not forget food, minerals, metals, lumber, etc. that the US has to import to meet domestic demands that it can't fulfil itself.

Does the thought of a 30% higher cost of living for 350 million citizens sound like a good compromise for saving a few hundred thousand jobs that you'd eventually lose anyways ? Sure as hell doesn't sound like a good deal to me ...

Correct, it means NA. Which immediately meant Mexico, then after American producers were completely shut down from a competitive labor rate, their CEOs reverted to overseas production. So its better for our country to have a bunch of lower priced products that jobless people can't and will not be buying? It did exactly what it was intended to do, allow big business to use slave labor rates to increase their profit margins. I don't know your personal experience with NAFTA, or if you even have any, but i do......... so i can make a truthful comment based on actual results of NAFTA.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

We export more food than we eat ourselves...corn and wheat we export at least 2 to 1 over canada. You must also realize our government pays a large portion of farmers to NOT farm their land (about the only grain we are not a or the world leader in is rice). Meats we import cheaper meat and export much of our own. Our country also does not go after its own resources like it once did in part to environmentalists and the ability to get it cheaper somewhere else.

 

[goodrich 10+ year member]

Anyone here buy into the conspiracy theory that the Illuminati might be the reason the world's economy is where it is today? I'm sure there are quite a few theories going around perpetuated by some genuine loonies but the Illuminati theory seems to have some weight behind it.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

First of all, it is very well understood that the cause of this recession is the result of consumption on credit from an inflated housing market.

Now if we want to talk about NAFTA and its effects, I find it weird that you talk as if it is so one-sided, or so obviously negative. Aside from the obvious fact that, since the signing of NAFTA, there has been little-to-no significant negative impact on unemployment and GDP with the exception of 9/11 and this recent episode. There is also the argument that NAFTA encourages employment in exports, which pays above the median.

The argument I believe you're making is that the increasing trade deficits with Canada and Mexico has caused the US to further displace jobs to make up for it. There is very little consensus on this topic, most famously dissented on by Friedman. If anything, you should place that blame on trade deficits with China that began in the 80's.

Canada is full of resources that the US requires. You can forget about everything else and just look at energy: oil, natural gas, or uranium. These protectionist ideas are simply impossible for a country that killed itself with consumption.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

To be honest, the biggest loser in NAFTA is the mexican farmer.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

We also have other trade agreements with Central America, similar to NAFTA, but I wouldn't call that short trip "overseas". And we def. are not losing jobs to uneducated mexicans.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

To be honest, the biggest loser in NAFTA is the mexican farmer.

Very true.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I know in Ohio, Michigan and Indiana they lost a few part suppliers for the automotive industry. I know of at least 4 factories within a 30 mile radious that closed and each one had a few houndred to a 1000 workers.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Verified statistics, please. Anecdotes mean nothing to me.