Proper Staging

See, I knew I liked you. Very good observations and my points thru out IM's. One thing I like about the later gen. Civics....the distance to the glass from the driver position. I could totally have PLD's as close to kicks in a new gen Civic with pods in the pillars/....um "corner windows" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Happy new years all.

My resolution is to not take the powerful internet seriously.

SQ fo lyfe yo. Knam sayin'

 
I had to do quite a bit of experimenting with foam and MLV to get to a suitable place where I didn't have all sorts of issues traveling up through the dash.
Funny how no matter which drivers you use...$5/ea or $500 ea...this will never go away unless it's addressed adequately.

I've not heard a car yet with all drivers mounted below the dash, facing toward the center console that had a stage height above the dash. Not saying it can't be done, but I've not heard it yet.
I haven't and I'm saying it cant without heavy modification.
Take your 3-way home bookshelf speakers, flip them over so the tweet is on the bottom, or lay them on their side. Put them on the floor under a desk or table in a small room. Aim them at some arbitrary point [ie dome light] and get an earful of that for awhile. I will sound like stinky poo poo.

separating the midrange from the tweeter will give you some undesired problems that are harder to fix due to the typical crossover points used b/w midbass & midrange vs. midrange & tweeter. In general, it's just better to keep higher crossed drivers closer together.
Don't agree at all. It's all amplitue above ~2k right? and phase/time below? The brain is easily fooled...just look at some unconventional home tower designs. They're going to stage and image leagues better than a car cause you can get the correct requirements for stereo. You cannot re-play stereo in a car unless you mod an F1 race car.
 
Don't agree at all. It's all amplitue above ~2k right? and phase/time below? The brain is easily fooled...just look at some unconventional home tower designs. They're going to stage and image leagues better than a car cause you can get the correct requirements for stereo. You cannot re-play stereo in a car unless you mod an F1 race car.
lobing.

phase/time below 500k, I believe. IIRC, there's a good few octaves where it's a bit of both.

Personally I've just learned to cross everything to 800 or lower (low, low volume to protect tweeters) and work from there. Even though we aren't supposed to be able to hear phase/time shifts above 2khz, I still can hear a tweeter come full circle and 'click' back into phase with 3 t/a adjustments of about 0.02ms each. So, for every 0.08ms I can hear the tweeter come back into phase. Kind of crazy. But, to make it easier to discern, I drop everything into the t/a audible range so that it's much easier to get right. I don't know if there's a drawback to doing this (ie: does higher frequency crossing result in another phase shift that negates my work?), but so far it's been my best method of locking the stage together.

So, anyway, what I was saying is that if you're going to separate anything, the lobing effect dictates that you would want to do it at a lower frequency where the wavelengths are longer. How much water does this hold in a car? I can't give definates. I will say that the coherency in my car by putting the mid with the tweeter increased right off the bat, whereas having the tweeter separated from the mid, while the mid was in the kick and midbass in the doors, coherency was a *****. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/mad.gif.c18f003ab0ef8a0d9c27ca78d77a6392.gif

I guess it's a bit OT since he has all his drivers close together. But when he decides he needs to increase his stage height, my experience says that he would be better suited to couple the midrange and tweeter and put them on the dash rather than just take the tweeter up to the top.

 
so kicks are more suited for cars/trucks that the dash doesnt protrude over them like a roof? the sound waves from my kicks may hit the underside of the dash causing all kinds of reflection, so in order to fix that would be to raise the height of my speakers over the dash to have a clear field open from any obstacles. that makes since. that brings me to another question. if you have kicks installed in any car, wouldnt legs of the driver and/or passenger get in the way and cause unwanted reflection?

 
so kicks are more suited for cars/trucks that the dash doesnt protrude over them like a roof? the sound waves from my kicks may hit the underside of the dash causing all kinds of reflection, so in order to fix that would be to raise the height of my speakers over the dash to have a clear field open from any obstacles. that makes since. that brings me to another question. if you have kicks installed in any car, wouldnt legs of the driver and/or passenger get in the way and cause unwanted reflection?
Bingo! Smart man here.

Every time you move your legs around, whether hitting the brake, shifting, or just stretching your leg the sound will change. I have been against kick installs for a long time, and I agree with Bikinpunk, I havent heard a car to date with a high enough stage using a tweeter(2.5khz+) in the kick.

Also I will go ahead and say prematurely that Horns are even worse to deal with in a car! I got James Bang to sell his for good finally //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif ( dont even think about using them)

But I think fox has it right, in your home would you ever put your Home theater bookshelf monitors on the floor and aim them up?

Another thing overlooked is power. You will need to feed your tweeters more power to bring the top-end back to a desired level. At that point your tweeters are working harder even more and are closer to x-max, X-mech or thermal limits, which will then increase overall distortion levels. You wont realize you cooked them tweeters until one day they just stop working.

-"No Ceilings" -

 
It depends on the car and the install.

Everything has it's tradeoffs. Experimenting is the only real way to figure out what works best.

OP, you really should consider using the corner windows. I've gotten that to work VERY well for me. And they're not in the way.





 
coupes dont have those corner windows. otherwise that would have been my first option. but i heard to have your speakers close together because you dont want different lengths from your speakers to your ears.

 
coupes dont have those corner windows. otherwise that would have been my first option. but i heard to have your speakers close together because you dont want different lengths from your speakers to your ears.
The wave lengths on tweeter frequencies is shorter to the wavelength on mid to low freqs. You can get away with having your tweeter closer to you with a bit of time, levels, and phase adjustments to trick the brain.

 
I liked your first ones better.
IMG_6883-2.jpg
Me, too. Do some more digging. You can find better ones. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

The wave lengths on tweeter frequencies is shorter to the wavelength on mid to low freqs. You can get away with having your tweeter closer to you with a bit of time, levels, and phase adjustments to trick the brain.
I presented that as an option a few times in other forums. I figured it was plausible since tweeters are driven by ILD and not ITD. However, I've found that it's not a good idea in reality.

OP, sorry, I thought you had the sedan. I should've realized you didn't when I saw your door panels.

 
np binkin, thanks for the help. i thought of the a-pillar pods as well but i was scared of the airbag deployment, and i thought the kicks will be more stealthy as well

 
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