Problem fusing my grounds

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

I'm with the OP...
Myself, I've not only put circuit breakers inline with my ground returns.. but I've started adding fuses to the chassis and body panels of my car... I just take ANL fuses and screw them down, everywhere... you can't be too safe... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/graduate.gif.d982460be9f153bb54e5d4cb744f6ae8.gif

but you introduce extra resistance in your grounds which not only increases voltage drop but results in a potential difference in your grounds - which is a place for noise to live.

it's not about being too safe, it's about minimizing resistance while providing adequate protection.

fusing grounds is unnecessary and is more likely to cause other issues than prevent them.

 

[ahole-ic]

but you introduce extra resistance in your grounds which not only increases voltage drop but results in a potential difference in your grounds - which is a place for noise to live.
it's not about being too safe, it's about minimizing resistance while providing adequate protection.

fusing grounds is unnecessary and is more likely to cause other issues than prevent them.

That's not true. How exactly does putting a fuse on the ground stand to introduce noise any more than on the positive side? It doesn't. I've been laughing through this whole thing. It started out as someone trolling and turned into a lot of people admitting they didn't know what they were talking about... including you. The messiah from sounddomain. I'm sort of shocked. How exactly is the power circuit not in series? The amp and fuse are in series correct? If not please explain. If so, please explain how the placement of a fuse matters AT ALL.

 

[Haunz 10+ year member]

it's not about being too safe, it's about minimizing resistance while providing adequate protection.

Sarcasm > you

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

That's not true. How exactly does putting a fuse on the ground stand to introduce noise any more than on the positive side? It doesn't. I've been laughing through this whole thing. It started out as someone trolling and turned into a lot of people admitting they didn't know what they were talking about... including you. The messiah from sounddomain. I'm sort of shocked. How exactly is the power circuit not in series? The amp and fuse are in series correct? If not please explain. If so, please explain how the placement of a fuse matters AT ALL.

are you saying that a fuse has the exact same resistance as the wire it protects? a fuse has more resistance than the wire it protects #1. #2 every connection you make introduces more resistance. the goal is to minimize resistance for your grounds and power - the entire circuit.

we should all agree we are going to fuse the power wire since we have to size the fuse for the wire and protect the car from shorts - you do that on the power wire since the entire car is the ground plane. if we just fuse the ground connection our power wire is not protected.

adding more fuses in series adds resistance (both from the fuse itself and the two connections). why do you want to add more resistance to the circuit?

resistance causes voltage drop.

a difference in potential between grounds is one of the main causes for noise in a mobile audio system.

i'm not sure why this is a subject to be combative on.

 

[ahole-ic]

are you saying that a fuse has the exact same resistance as the wire it protects? a fuse has more resistance than the wire it protects #1. #2 every connection you make introduces more resistance. the goal is to minimize resistance for your grounds and power - the entire circuit.
we should all agree we are going to fuse the power wire since we have to size the fuse for the wire and protect the car from shorts - you do that on the power wire since the entire car is the ground plane. if we just fuse the ground connection our power wire is not protected.

adding more fuses in series adds resistance (both from the fuse itself and the two connections). why do you want to add more resistance to the circuit?

resistance causes voltage drop.

a difference in potential between grounds is one of the main causes for noise in a mobile audio system.

i'm not sure why this is a subject to be combative on.

I'm not sure why you assumed I was saying fuses do not have resistance as I never said nor implied that. I suppose you were just grasping at straws. The fact remains that putting a fuse on the + or - wire does not change the resistance of the fuse. Therefore noise introduction is a fallacious argument.

A fuse pops because too much current is being drawn through it for too long. Since the same amount of current is going to flow through the entire circuit, it does not matter which wire it is on. You have failed to come up with a logical argument against it.

 

[ahole-ic]

are you saying that a fuse has the exact same resistance as the wire it protects? a fuse has more resistance than the wire it protects #1. #2 every connection you make introduces more resistance. the goal is to minimize resistance for your grounds and power - the entire circuit.
we should all agree we are going to fuse the power wire since we have to size the fuse for the wire and protect the car from shorts - you do that on the power wire since the entire car is the ground plane. if we just fuse the ground connection our power wire is not protected.

adding more fuses in series adds resistance (both from the fuse itself and the two connections). why do you want to add more resistance to the circuit?

resistance causes voltage drop.

a difference in potential between grounds is one of the main causes for noise in a mobile audio system.

i'm not sure why this is a subject to be combative on.

I'm not sure why you assumed I was saying fuses do not have resistance as I never said nor implied that. I suppose you were just grasping at straws. The fact remains that putting a fuse on the + or - wire does not change the resistance of the fuse. Therefore noise introduction is a fallacious argument.

A fuse pops because too much current is being drawn through it for too long. Since the same amount of current is going to flow through the entire circuit, it does not matter which wire it is on. You have failed to come up with a logical argument against it.

 

[power-fanatic07 5,000+ posts]

Holy Fuck. Ngas being too serious ITT

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Since the same amount of current is going to flow through the entire circuit, it does not matter which wire it is on. You have failed to come up with a logical argument against it.

You suggest that only fusing the ground wire provides protection? really? when the entire car metal is a ground plane, where do you fuse that circuit to provide over current and short circuit protection? you can't fuse once at the battery ground because of the fuse size. fusing at the ground connection is pointless since the positive wire isn't protected and subject to damage. we fuse positive wires at the source because of the ground plane. polarity doesn't matter - the car metal could be 12V and all wires ground wires and we'd fuse ground wires then.

we don't fuse positive wires because they are "positive wires". we fuse them because they are subject to shorting on metal.

i'm NOT grasping at straws. i'm trying to help you understand fundamental electrical theory, and sadly failing at teaching you something.

do you contest that a difference in potential on the grounding system is a source of noise (by AC signals being able to live on that potential difference)? or is this a concept you don't know about yet?

do you contest that fuses and the connections add resistance?

do you contest that resistance + current = voltage drop?

do you contest that adding voltage drop across a ground is a bad idea?

in the end i think you're going to learn something here, so good is being done. and hopefully you won't go around fusing grounds and not positive wires.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i would have responded earlier, but i was actually working on a car, not just spouting off on the internet. ironically, i was doing the big 3 on a Scion tC. i was even making a mount for a fuse holder... on... wait for it... the positive wire!!! FYI - no, i didn't follow eCrack's advice and fuse the big 3 grounds.

silly kids

 

[n2caraudio 10+ year member]

You suggest that only fusing the ground wire provides protection? really? when the entire car metal is a ground plane, where do you fuse that circuit to provide over current and short circuit protection? you can't fuse once at the battery ground because of the fuse size. fusing at the ground connection is pointless since the positive wire isn't protected and subject to damage. we fuse positive wires at the source because of the ground plane. polarity doesn't matter - the car metal could be 12V and all wires ground wires and we'd fuse ground wires then.
we don't fuse positive wires because they are "positive wires". we fuse them because they are subject to shorting on metal.

i'm NOT grasping at straws. i'm trying to help you understand fundamental electrical theory, and sadly failing at teaching you something.

do you contest that a difference in potential on the grounding system is a source of noise (by AC signals being able to live on that potential difference)? or is this a concept you don't know about yet?

do you contest that fuses and the connections add resistance?

do you contest that resistance + current = voltage drop?

do you contest that adding voltage drop across a ground is a bad idea?

in the end i think you're going to learn something here, so good is being done. and hopefully you won't go around fusing grounds and not positive wires.

Your wasting your time. Now watch, he will contest one or two things you said and dismiss the rest.

 

[ahole-ic]

You suggest that only fusing the ground wire provides protection? really? when the entire car metal is a ground plane, where do you fuse that circuit to provide over current and short circuit protection? you can't fuse once at the battery ground because of the fuse size. fusing at the ground connection is pointless since the positive wire isn't protected and subject to damage. we fuse positive wires at the source because of the ground plane. polarity doesn't matter - the car metal could be 12V and all wires ground wires and we'd fuse ground wires then.
we don't fuse positive wires because they are "positive wires". we fuse them because they are subject to shorting on metal.

i'm NOT grasping at straws. i'm trying to help you understand fundamental electrical theory, and sadly failing at teaching you something.

do you contest that a difference in potential on the grounding system is a source of noise (by AC signals being able to live on that potential difference)? or is this a concept you don't know about yet?

do you contest that fuses and the connections add resistance?

do you contest that resistance + current = voltage drop?

do you contest that adding voltage drop across a ground is a bad idea?

in the end i think you're going to learn something here, so good is being done. and hopefully you won't go around fusing grounds and not positive wires.

Ugh. You don't know enough to teach me.

You suggest that fusing a ground cannot provide overcurrent protection. I contest that in a series circuit, it doesn't matter where the fuse is. Every electronics book or instructor in history would agree with me. Why don't you?

Electrically, there is no difference in the positive and the negative. You don't seem to understand that.

Do you contest that a dead short between a + and - with the - fused would not pop the fuse?

All grounds connect to the chassis. The chassis is connected to the negative post of the battery. If that connection were fused, it would pop on dead shorts. Now, you are saying there is no way to fuse that so that it would pop for a small wire shorting. I contend that it's exactly the same is when you fuse the + side. You merely fuse each individual wire as you do with + fused systems.

You have no point here.

 

[ahole-ic]

Your wasting your time. Now watch, he will contest one or two things you said and dismiss the rest.

Have we spoken before? I don't think so because that's not my MO

 

[ahole-ic]

i would have responded earlier, but i was actually working on a car, not just spouting off on the internet. ironically, i was doing the big 3 on a Scion tC. i was even making a mount for a fuse holder... on... wait for it... the positive wire!!! FYI - no, i didn't follow eCrack's advice and fuse the big 3 grounds.
silly kids

It's not my advice. I am not fusing my grounds as the troll OP suggests. I just wanted to jump in here and prove with fact and logic that you guys don't know what you're talking about... because you just simply do not. I'm shocked at the KHA revelation. I always thought you were respectable.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[rmzsuzuki89 10+ year member]

Obvious troll is obvious.

^^This^^